# Books too taboo for school **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 8, 2003, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-too-taboo-for-school/147365 "2003-01-08T20:32:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MrThompson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MrThompson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrThompson)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-too-taboo-for-school/147365/41 "2003-01-09T18:43:23Z")
Ah, I wish \* Lord of the Flies\* had been banned from my syllabus (well, I don’t, but you know). Terrible, terrible book. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-too-taboo-for-school/147365/42 "2003-01-09T19:02:52Z")
So am I the only who actually enjoyed LotF? Even though it’s been a long time since I read it, my little 12 year-old self liked it a whole lot. _But what did I know? I also wore acid-washed jeans in those days…voluntarily!!!_ ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-too-taboo-for-school/147365/43 "2003-01-09T19:42:50Z")
The link that has generated the discussion is to the American Library Association. That deals with Libraries, not schools or specifically school libraries. So, unless I’ve missed something, the list refers to books that have been challenged as to whether they should be allowed in **public** libraries, not school libraries. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-too-taboo-for-school/147365/44 "2003-01-09T19:52:28Z")
One of my favorite local bans.[Chato’s Kitchen by Gary Soto](http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0399226583.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg) The Clovis unified school district refused to allow this childrens book in libraries because of its “depictions of gang symbols” because the cat wears his hat sideways and or wear bandannas. I have no problem with school dress codes prohibiting such items but pulling a childrens book over it…nah. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-too-taboo-for-school/147365/45 "2003-01-09T19:52:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Apos \* > \*\*No offense, but your link doesnt cite anything close to a lawsuit over simply mentioning the cultural importance of the Bible, and the second link seems perfectly reasonable: you can teach about it all you want: but you can’t lead someone else’s kids in devotional worship on public time. \*\* No offense taken. The first site I put up was to give you a taste of the sort of lawsuits that erupt over religion/school issues here in the US - I was probably remiss if I (mis)lead you to believe it was purely about the Bible in schools, but it was not intentional. The second link does sound perfectly reasonable… until you decide to put it in practice. While you might have all the intention in the world to present the Bible as a cultural artifact, what makes you think that the students questions will remain on-topic? “My mother believes that the Earth was created in 7 days. What do you believe?” or “My Dad says the Bible is a crock of dung and we don’t have to listen to this. Wait 'til he hears what went on today!” Any first year (or ten-year) teacher will be struck cold upon hearing words like that and they learn not even to bother. Anyway, most teachers, upon being confronted with a 2,500 word policy about teaching a particular subject that is not even required, will most likely not even bother. Anyway, there are more ways to censor than by mere decree. Fear of being sued works just as well sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-too-taboo-for-school/147365/46 "2003-01-09T19:55:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by amarone \* > \*\*The link that has generated the discussion is to the American Library Association. That deals with Libraries, not schools or specifically school libraries. So, unless I’ve missed something, the list refers to books that have been challenged as to whether they should be allowed in **public** libraries, not school libraries. \*\* You missed something: "Seventy-one percent of the challenges were to material in **schools or school libraries**.2 Another twenty-four percent were to material in public libraries (down two percent since 1999). Sixty percent of the challenges were brought by parents, fifteen percent by patrons, and nine percent by administrators, both down one percent since 1999). " ( **Emphasis mine** , JohnT) [http://www.ala.org/bbooks/challeng.html#mfcb](http://www.ala.org/bbooks/challeng.html#mfcb) ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-too-taboo-for-school/147365/47 "2003-01-09T21:14:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JohnT \* > \*\*You missed something: > > "Seventy-one percent of the challenges were to material in **schools or school libraries**.2 Another twenty-four percent were to material in public libraries (down two percent since 1999). Sixty percent of the challenges were brought by parents, fifteen percent by patrons, and nine percent by administrators, both down one percent since 1999). " ( **Emphasis mine** , JohnT) > > [http://www.ala.org/bbooks/challeng.html#mfcb](http://www.ala.org/bbooks/challeng.html#mfcb) \*\* OK. So the books will mostly be in school libraries. I think the presence of 24% from public libraries would explain some of the odd entries on the list, such as Sex by Madonna, that you would never expect to see in a school library anyway. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Green\_Feather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8e7dd6/32.png) [@The\_Green\_Feather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Green_Feather)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-too-taboo-for-school/147365/48 "2003-01-09T21:33:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by you with the face \* > \*\*So am I the only who actually enjoyed LotF? Even though it’s been a long time since I read it, my little 12 year-old self liked it a whole lot. \*\* Well, I liked it. I didn’t see any problem with it. Everyone is giving there own books reports, but is there a reason behind the challenge to LotF. Or any of the other books? Is it being challenged just because someone has a bee up their butt? If that were the case, I would have challenged all of the required reading, just to get out of homework! ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-too-taboo-for-school/147365/49 "2003-01-09T22:24:20Z")
Also from **stpauler** ’s link: > [@](#): > > Little Red Riding Hood - This children’s classic was removed from a California school district on the grounds that Red Riding Hood’s gift of wine to her Grandmother “condones the use of alcohol.” Sheesh! So does the U.S. Constitution (21st Amendment) and so does the Bible. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-too-taboo-for-school/147365/50 "2003-01-10T00:30:53Z")
—Anyway, most teachers, upon being confronted with a 2,500 word policy about teaching a particular subject that is not even required, will most likely not even bother.— Heh, you obviously haven’t seen the sorts of proceedural garbage and guidelines teachers have to read and obey on just about everything. 2,500 words, on a subject this touchy, is nothing. — Any first year (or ten-year) teacher will be struck cold upon hearing words like that and they learn not even to bother.— So… what? You seem to be arguing against yourself here. Public schools are not appropriate places for teachers to lead kids in religious discussions: they have no authority to tell kids what to believe or how. Doing so would be absolutely disasterous. So, yeah, talking about the stories in the Bible directly, instead of simply talking about it in the context of history (which most history teachers seem to do just fine) is dicey outside of comparative religion classes (many of which do exist, and some of which work fine, some of which are thinly veiled devotional secretarian worship). ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-too-taboo-for-school/147365/51 "2003-01-10T01:47:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JohnT \* > \*\*Here’s a [link](http://www.aclu.org/ReligiousLiberty/ReligiousLibertylist.cfm?c=139) as to the commonality of such lawsuits. To give you an idea of what a teacher has to think about if they dare want to mention the Bible as a cultural force in the West, check out [this page](http://www.veaweteach.org/bible.html). Upon reading the previous link, can you imagine why many educators and administrators don’t even want to tackle the subject, much less make it available to come up? \*\* Thanks for providing the link, but if you think educators wouldn’t tackle the subject based on those guidelines, you must not have read much educationese! I’m pretty involved in our school district, and your link is short, clear and simple compared to the guidelines I have seen for noncontroversial items. It also seems reasonable. A teacher should neither say it is true or it is false. I went to a very liberal school in New York City 35 years ago, and we had stacks of Bibles in our English book room, and used them in senior year. No problems, no objections. My daughter studied comparative religion in history in 7th grade 3 years ago. (And again we have a pretty liberal district.) I thought it was done very well. However, I’m sure that people are freaking about this issue on either side of it - it’s a big diverse country. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-too-taboo-for-school/147365.md?page=2)