# Books with extremely unlikable protagonists **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 13, 2005, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-extremely-unlikable-protagonists/312262 "2005-07-13T00:47:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-extremely-unlikable-protagonists/312262/61 "2005-07-13T17:59:50Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > The main character from Camus’s _L’entranger_. Sure, he’s an utter bastard, but he knows he’s alive and he fully accepts the consequences of his actions, so that makes him all right, right? Yeah, I didn’t think so either. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-extremely-unlikable-protagonists/312262/62 "2005-07-13T18:59:43Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Vidal … just comes across in this book and his autobiographical essays as a detached and bitter old queen (though he’s never acknowledged he was gay- still claims he’s bisexual [except for the liking sex with women part]). In fact, he has stated that he believes that there is no such thing as a homosexual or a heterosexual. He can’t “acknowledge” being gay if he believes there’s no such thing. ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-extremely-unlikable-protagonists/312262/63 "2005-07-13T19:50:41Z")
Oh, and how could I forget the creepiest protagonist of them all? **Richard III** was a right bastard. He murders his brother, supporters and nephews, and even has the cheek to gleefully share his horrible plans with us, the audience. Even while we’re jeering at his rivals for being stupid enough to fall into Richard’s traps, we fall right into them as well, because we’re almost starting to root for the jerk by the end of the play. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-extremely-unlikable-protagonists/312262/64 "2005-07-13T23:33:03Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > Anyone read _Smilla’s Sense of Snow_? I’m about halfway through and beginning to hope that Smilla falls off a glacier or something. Yeah, she’s a wench. She was a good deal nicer in the movie than the book. Julia Ormond made her downright sympathetic, but the book made her out to be an empathetic monster. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-extremely-unlikable-protagonists/312262/65 "2005-07-14T00:20:23Z")
> [@andros](#): > > But he’s _likable_. > > Hell, while we’re on comics for a moment, howsabout Morpheus? I’d suggest he’s certainly cool as all git out, but he’s got 75 issues/ten trades chock full of not likable. Well, if we’re talking about comic characters, how about…Batman? He’s a jerk, and his actions have arguably lead to the deaths of many innocents for the sake of his personal moral code. Plus, his costume includes grey briefs over light-grey tights. I’m sorry, but there’s a natural limit on how impressive that can be. > [@MEBuckner](#): > > So, this kingdom…What is its annual GDP? What kind of natural resources does it have? Does it have a coastline? Thanks for fixing the link—and the country is yours. But be warned, it comes with a terrible curse. And it’s the world’s leading exporter of medical specimens! ---
**Author:** ![Sleel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/73ab20/32.png) [@Sleel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleel)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-extremely-unlikable-protagonists/312262/66 "2005-07-14T00:43:49Z")
Damn, most of my good ones are taken. The anonymous narrator/protagonist from **Notes from Underground** by Dostoevsky made me want to slap the living shit out of him. Most Russian literature makes me have this reaction though. **No Longer Human** by Osamu Dazai affected me in much the same way as **Notes from Underground**. Oddly, the character from Camus’ **L’etranger** doesn’t seem to have affected me as much as these two. In fact, I had to look up the book to remember the main character’s name, Meursault. I have a rough time dealing with characters who have certain kinds of mental problems, particularly if the writing is well done. I tend to immerse myself in a book, become the character, live in that world while I’m reading. Because of that, I have to take books like this in small doses. I either get weird or have violent reactions against the character if I read for too long. Not so personally reprehensible was Tom Ripley from the books by Patricia Highsmith. Ripley is self-centered, arrogant, and almost as competent as he thinks he is. I think he was written not to be likable. The homosexual subtext was amplified for the movie, **The Talented Mr. Ripley** , while the amoral criminality of the character was de-emphasized. For example, the opening scene of the movie doesn’t mention that Ripley was in the middle of running a con when he played piano at that party. He’d been forging checks and documents in New York for close to a year by that time, as we find out in the first chapter or two of the novel. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-extremely-unlikable-protagonists/312262/67 "2005-07-14T13:40:12Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > Plus, his costume includes grey briefs over light-grey tights. I’m sorry, but there’s a natural limit on how impressive that can be. Or dark blue on grey. Or purple on grey. Or black on grey. Or black on black. But, why do people say that he’s wearing briefs _over_ his tights? Isn’t it just that his tights are coloured differently in different places? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-extremely-unlikable-protagonists/312262/68 "2005-07-14T13:42:38Z")
**Holden Caulfield** in _Catcher in the Rye_. Self-obsessed, petulant, juvenile idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-extremely-unlikable-protagonists/312262/69 "2005-07-14T16:14:49Z")
Pete Dexter’s _Paris Trout._ A racist, woman-hating sadist killer whose position in a small Deep Southern town basically makes him God. The fact that he takes no joy in anything he does, merely carries it out like a force of nature, only adds to that impression of an ascetic priest of pure evil. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-extremely-unlikable-protagonists/312262/70 "2005-07-14T16:41:40Z")
Mixtli in Gary Jennings’s _Aztec_. An admirable man in many ways (brilliant, loyal, adaptable, poetic) but also, by the end of the book, a murderer, a regicide, a social climber, a cruel husband, and a sellout. Still a favorite historical novel of mine. Haviland Tuf in George R.R. Martin’s _Tuf Voyaging_. A smartass, misanthropic, solitary, overweight, borderline-megalomaniac - but damn, it’s a _really_ good book! For all his faults, I wish I could be Tuf’s sidekick. Can’t wait for the sequel, whenever Martin gets around to it. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-extremely-unlikable-protagonists/312262/71 "2005-07-14T19:08:23Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > **Holden Caulfield** in _Catcher in the Rye_. Self-obsessed, petulant, juvenile idiot. I believe that’s 4 votes for Holden. We may have a winner for most hated protagonist, folks. For second place, I’d like to nominate some other characters from George R.R. Martin’s _Song of Ice and Fire_ series (although I suppose it could be argued that these are supporting characters): Stannis Baratheon - A more hardass and stern man was never born. He made Davos a knight while also cutting off some of his fingers, for Davos’ efforts in smuggling onions into Stannis’ castle while it was under siege. Petyr “Littlefinger” Baelish - Charming, handsome, and utterly amoral, he sees people as no more than pieces on his game board. Theon Greyjoy - He thinks he’s better than the Stark family that he’s been living with (as a sort of hostage to keep his father from rebelling again), plus he’s vain and cruel. When he sets his plans in motion, it turns out he’s too stupid to keep events under his control. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-extremely-unlikable-protagonists/312262/72 "2005-07-14T19:59:09Z")
> [@vl\_mungo](#): > > **Thomas Covenant** from Stephen Donaldson’s Chronicles of Thomas Covenant Series is a total prat. When I read the books I wanted to smack him upside the head. Repeatedly. > > On the other hand, **Harry Flashman** from George MacDonald Fraser’s Flashman Series is a liar, coward and a cad (to put it mildly), and yet somehow (probably because he’s honest about it) comes across as likeable. Hey, you stole my answer! Covenant was a thoroughly unlikeable person. Then again, I loathed the books - I managed to force my way through the first one, then the first one in the second trilogy. The “high” point of #1 was when he raped someone. Bleh. Maybe I hated the books so much just because of the “protagonist”. Flashy - I like him. Yeah, he’s a liar and a cheat etc. But as I pointed out to **Papa Zappa** once, all in all he’s actually OK at the soldiering thing. And he’s under no illusions about his own shortcomings. I think he’d be great fun to hang out with (aside from being fictional and dead and all). ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2005, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-extremely-unlikable-protagonists/312262/73 "2005-07-15T02:40:08Z")
> [@sturmhauke](#): > > Stannis Baratheon - A more hardass and stern man was never born. He made Davos a knight while also cutting off some of his fingers, for Davos’ efforts in smuggling onions into Stannis’ castle while it was under siege. Sure, but when it came down to it he was the ONLY “king” of the five to bother doing The Right Thing for everyone. Even if he did use his pet sorceress to kill his rivals. > [@sturmhauke](#): > > Theon Greyjoy - He thinks he’s better than the Stark family that he’s been living with (as a sort of hostage to keep his father from rebelling again), plus he’s vain and cruel. When he sets his plans in motion, it turns out he’s too stupid to keep events under his control. Ugh. Nothing worse than someone amoral and incompetent. I actually LIKED him at first. When he died, well, I was quite happy. Still, I don’t think anything could ever top the Red Wedding. I’m not sure I’ve ever read something so horrifying in my life. I was waiting for it to all have been a bad dream or something. And that puts daddy Lannister on the top. Combine that with what he did to Tyrion when he had his first love, and I think he’s the worst. But for the purposes of this thread, I guess he doesn’t count as a protagonist since we never get the story from his perspective. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2005, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-extremely-unlikable-protagonists/312262/74 "2005-07-15T07:30:07Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Sure, but when it came down to it [Stannis] was the ONLY “king” of the five to bother doing The Right Thing for everyone. Even if he did use his pet sorceress to kill his rivals. Actually, I think Stannis is _her_ pet, he just doesn’t know it. That’s just speculation though. > [@](#): > > Ugh. Nothing worse than someone amoral and incompetent. I actually LIKED [Theon] at first. When he died, well, I was quite happy. I don’t remember him dying. Captured and thrown in a dungeon, sure, but I don’t remember an explicit “Theon is dead” passage. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2005, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-extremely-unlikable-protagonists/312262/75 "2005-07-15T12:50:44Z")
> [@sturmhauke](#): > > Actually, I think Stannis is _her_ pet, he just doesn’t know it. That’s just speculation though. Certainly a possibility. Although I think he’s just got hisself some religion. I know I’d be a lot more amenable to religion if it could be used for whacking my enemies and giving me kewl glowing swords. But either way he seems to be giving the orders…so far. > [@sturmhauke](#): > > I don’t remember him dying. Captured and thrown in a dungeon, sure, but I don’t remember an explicit “Theon is dead” passage. Hmm…it’s been a couple years (back when I thought aFfC was coming “in April”) but I thought he eventually ended up dead. Still, rotting and tortured I can accept too. -Joe Lannister ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2005, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-extremely-unlikable-protagonists/312262/76 "2005-07-15T14:53:52Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Sure, but when it came down to it [Stannis] was the ONLY “king” of the five to bother doing The Right Thing for everyone. Even if he did use his pet sorceress to kill his rivals. Yup, Stannis is deeply and purely honorable. He would have stepped aside if someone had a better claim, or if Joffrey had been legitimate. But doing The Right Thing in the North, disregarding that he did it for political reasons, does not make him “likable.” As for Theon Greyjoy, I did find him likable at first, and still retained my sympathy for him all the way down his abysmally stupid campaign. Baelish was a total fucko all the way, though. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2005, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-extremely-unlikable-protagonists/312262/77 "2005-07-15T15:37:10Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Yup, Stannis is deeply and purely honorable. He would have stepped aside if someone had a better claim, or if Joffrey had been legitimate. But doing The Right Thing in the North, disregarding that he did it for political reasons, does not make him “likable.” Did he do it for political reasons? I thought it was more of a Davros convincing him that he couldn’t do anything productive (re: killing his enemies and taking the throne) that he decided, “Well, hell, may as well use my troops for the good of the kingdom even if I can’t be king.” > [@andros](#): > > As for Theon Greyjoy, I did find him likable at first, and still retained my sympathy for him all the way down his abysmally stupid campaign. > [@andros](#): > > “I just betrayed someone and did some really evil stuff. Oh, look, here come some guys well known for being sneaky and slimy and powerhungry. Hi guys! How are you doing? I trust you so much I’m going to open the gates and come talk to you.” > > Truly too stupid to live. > [@andros](#): > > Baelish was a total fucko all the way, though. Sure…but still. It’s like the Prince of Monaco finding a way to take over France. And let’s face it, in a Dog Eat Dog world he was a runt chihuahua. -Joe, podengo pequeno ---
**Author:** ![parthenokinesis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/cc9497/32.png) [@parthenokinesis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/parthenokinesis)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2005, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-extremely-unlikable-protagonists/312262/78 "2005-07-15T15:49:11Z")
> [@robardin](#): > > Samuel Jackson mentioned in an interview on _The Daily Show_ that of all his roles, the character of Othello was the one he most personally disliked (I guess even more so than the stick-up guy who tries to rob the McDonnell’s in _Coming To America_). He just can’t relate to how some bad-ass warrior like Othello was made out to be would never actually confront either Desdemona or Cassio. [hijack]Um, that was Larry Fishburne (in Othello, I mean, the stick up guy was Sammy L. and I don’t know who you saw on The Daily Show, but Othello was definately Larry) and I can’t imagine him disliking Othello more than Ike Turner! WTF[/hijack] RE: OP I nominate Roland of Gilead. Sure he’s the hero, gotta save all existance, only because if the tower fell he wouldn’t be able to go inside. What a shmuck. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2005, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-extremely-unlikable-protagonists/312262/79 "2005-07-15T18:09:55Z")
I’d have to say the four protagonists in Heinlein’s _Number of the Beast_, mainly because they did everything in their power to AVOID trouble. Whenever a situation looked potentially sticky, they’d get in their space ship and take off. Then they’d high-five each other for how smart they were. Come on, great stories are ALL ABOUT conflict! We WANT to see the main characters get in trouble. If they’re so smart, then they’d figure out how to get out of trouble and turn the tables on their enemies. Quit running away with your tail between your legs and crossing that reality off the continuum map. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2005, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-extremely-unlikable-protagonists/312262/80 "2005-07-15T19:19:52Z")
> [@Knowed Out](#): > > Quit running away with your tail between your legs and crossing that reality off the continuum map. Eh. They did eventually figure out that they couldn’t run away. The Beast was pretty much ubiquitous throughout the multiverse. Of course, this was also about the time that the book stumbled itself into a mishmash of completely random historical and fictional characters mixed in with Heinlein’s entire stable of past characters. The last chapter or so, where the entire action consisted of Jubal and someone else describing who was arriving at the giant party/resort the four protagonists had set up was both excruciating and completely pointless. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-extremely-unlikable-protagonists/312262.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-extremely-unlikable-protagonists/312262.md?page=5)