# Books with seriously religious characters? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 23, 2003, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-seriously-religious-characters/157031 "2003-02-23T23:25:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-seriously-religious-characters/157031/61 "2003-02-26T05:04:24Z")
Hello, is somebody going to answer my question?: \> What is Orson Scott Card famous for in the Mormon church \> other than his novels and short stories? ---
**Author:** ![johncole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@johncole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johncole)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-seriously-religious-characters/157031/62 "2003-02-26T06:53:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wendell Wagner \* > \*\*What is Orson Scott Card famous for in the Mormon church other than his novels and short stories? \*\* Well, it could be his musical > [@](#): > > **Barefoot to Zion** (written in collaboration with his composer brother, Arlen L. Card), which played to sold-out houses in Utah as part of the Mormon Church’s celebration of the sesquicentennial of the entry of the pioneers into Salt Lake Valley It could be that: > [@](#): > > Card has written hundreds of audio plays and a dozen scripts for animated video plays for the family market This information taken from his [website](http://www.hatrack.com/osc/about.shtml). Or it could be something else that the Church holds to be important. I don’t know - what is it? ---
**Author:** ![GCU\_Stout\_Heart](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gcu_stout_heart/32/3032_2.png) [@GCU\_Stout\_Heart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GCU_Stout_Heart)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2003, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-seriously-religious-characters/157031/63 "2003-03-01T18:25:15Z")
Two novels which spring to mind are **Oranges Are Not The Only Fruit** by Jeanette Winterson and **Whit** by Iain Banks. In both, the particular religious sect (evangelism in _Oranges_ and a weird cult in _Whit_ ) is shown in a bad light, but the faith of the characters is not. I believe _Oranges_ is strongly autobiographical. Both excellent reads, IMHO. Louise. ---
**Author:** ![Sunshine\_and\_Smiles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Sunshine\_and\_Smiles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunshine_and_Smiles)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2003, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-seriously-religious-characters/157031/64 "2003-03-01T21:18:51Z")
Another note on Orson Scott Card, his book of short stories (which tell a big story) called “The Folk of the Fringe” deals with a post-apocalypse society where Mormons migrate to Salt Lake City, the new capital of the world. Mormons and christianity don’t usually interest me, but this was really really good ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2003, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-seriously-religious-characters/157031/65 "2003-03-01T23:43:30Z")
_A Canticle for Liebowitz_, a science fiction novel by Walter M. Miller, Jr. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2003, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-seriously-religious-characters/157031/66 "2003-03-01T23:55:05Z")
_To Play The Fool_ by Laurie King also has a religious fool as a sympathetic main character. He’s unorthodox, but good, in other words, my kind of person. The detective in this book is a lesbian who lives with her partner in San Francisco, and she has appeared in other detective novels by Laurie King. I’d recommend any of them, but this one is probably my favorite. CJ ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2003, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-seriously-religious-characters/157031/67 "2003-03-02T00:11:30Z")
Orson Scott Card also wrote the script for the annual pageant in New York, but I’ve never been to it. As far as I know, he’s mainly known as an SF author to LDS people, too. LDS bookstores carry his novels _Stone tables_ (about Moses) and the “Women of Genesis” books. Every once in a while, he writes an interesting essay or commentary. So, Wendell, as a lifelong Mormon and big OSC fan, my answer to your question is “um, I’m not sure.” If it helps, his dad was my MIL’s seminary teacher in high school, and she remembers little Scotty as a fast-moving toddler and trial to his mother… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Omorka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/50afbb/32.png) [@Omorka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omorka)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2003, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-seriously-religious-characters/157031/68 "2003-03-02T00:30:34Z")
Paulo Coelho’s **The Valkyries** is about a Catholic mystic and his wife, who is a more conventional Catholic; both of their faiths are presented very positively. (The book is pseudo-autobiographical.) I know Katherine Kurtz has already been mentioned; one of her early books, **Lammas Night** , is about a Wiccan coven and a semi-secular Anglican during WWII, and presents both faiths in a positive light, although it’s somewhat more sympatheic to the Wiccans. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2003, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-seriously-religious-characters/157031/69 "2003-03-02T00:41:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Earl of the CC \* > **Uh, divemaster, I’m pretty sure that The Stand was around 1989 or 1990.** King published the original in 1978, then an expanded edition containing all the stuff he liked but had to leave out the first time to make the book commercial in 1990/1. Since nobody’s mentioned them, David Gemmell has written three novels about Jon Shannow, a deeply religious pilgrim-cum-bounty hunter who wanders a post-apocalyptic world in search of Jerusalem. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2003, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-seriously-religious-characters/157031/70 "2003-03-02T01:08:55Z")
[Christopher Stasheff](http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/authors/Christopher_Stasheff.htm) has a whole pile of sci-fi/fantasy books with a heavy Roman Catholic bias (although, having read them, I’m not convinced he’s done the Church any favors). ---
**Author:** ![birdboy2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9c0ed/32.png) [@birdboy2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/birdboy2000)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2003, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-seriously-religious-characters/157031/71 "2003-03-02T02:12:35Z")
Well, it’s probably not the religion you people are thinking of, but many dragonlance characters, for example Goldmoon(Appearing in Chronicles, War of Souls, and a few others I can’t remember) who is a very devout priestess of Mishkahal, and Paladine is blessed with Revered daughter Crysania(Legends, a bit role in Summer Flame, quite a few short stories), Elistan(Chronicles, Legends) and almost all of the knights of Solamnia as followers. ---
**Author:** ![boo\_boo\_bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e4f/32.png) [@boo\_boo\_bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boo_boo_bear)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2003, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-seriously-religious-characters/157031/72 "2003-03-02T03:31:27Z")
For EXTREMELY conservative Catholic fiction, you can’t beat Michael O’Brien’s novels published by Ignatius Press… I really enjoyed most of them. And then there’s Malachi Martin, of course… **Windswept House** … but for both O’Brien and Martin you may need to BE Catholic or be aware of the “AmChurch Conspiracy”… O’Brien’s are the best reads of the two, however - very well written and filled with piety (although the piety is a bit self-conscious at times). They’re kind of a more well-written, more engaging **Left Behind** series… As an on-the-fence Catholic, I enjoyed the O’Brien books because I know both sides of the controversy - if you’re not Catholic, you may just not get it, however. -bbb- ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2003, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-seriously-religious-characters/157031/73 "2003-03-02T08:04:51Z")
Limiting my choices to the OP’s request for post-1980 books, I thought of the Sufi Muslim characters in Kim Stanley Robinson’s SF novels _Red Mars_ and _The Years of Rice and Salt_. They came across as sympathetic characters. James Joyce favorable to religion? Oh, come on now. You haven’t read _Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man_, it’s obvious. :rolleyes: **FriarTed** —YES! Charles Williams is an excellent call. I wish there were more Charles Williamses in the world. But he was one of a kind. Nowhere else will you find such deeply spiritual, and at the same time, intensely _bizarre_ Christianity. Williams lived in a time and place where original thinkers could strike out on their own and and conduct original explorations wherever they led. Christianity in America nowadays has become so much more formulaic, unimaginative, and straightjacketed, what with creeps like Pat Robinson and Jerry Fallwell and their ilk. Charles Williams was not afraid to pursue mystical occult Christianity into the farthest realms of his imagination. His understanding of Dante’s religion vis-à-vis Beatrice was something like Tantric yoga. Imagine what Christianity today could be like if Charles Williams had been more widely read and understood instead of a largely forgotten lonesome voice in the wilderness. ---
**Author:** ![brianmelendez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/65b543/32.png) [@brianmelendez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianmelendez)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2003, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-seriously-religious-characters/157031/74 "2003-03-02T15:43:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UnuMondo \* > **I don’t think most Christian readers would enjoy the spiritual aspects of Card’s writings if you believe Mormonism isn’t true, but he has shown a lot of Mormons that science fiction is a meaningful genre.** And he has shown some science-fiction readers a side of Mormonism that they may never have seen before. I am a longtime science-fiction fan and a Presbyterian. I also think that Orson Scott Card is the best living writer still actively publishing science fiction. One of my favorite works by Card is _The Folk of the Fringe_, which paints the Mormon religion and culture in a very favorable light. I am not buying into Mormonism at all, but I especially “enjoy the spiritual aspects of Card’s writings” because they have helped me learn about an interesting culture that I had not understood before. ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2003, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-seriously-religious-characters/157031/75 "2003-03-02T15:52:28Z")
I can’t believe that no one has mentioned Sinclair Lewis’ masterwork _Elmer Gantry_. It deals with both sincere religious belief, religious self-deception and religious hucksterism. It is a brilliant novel, wonderfully written about a fascinating subject…Granted, it’s not science fiction, but what can I say? It is one of the best novels I have ever read. TV ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2003, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-seriously-religious-characters/157031/76 "2003-03-02T17:48:04Z")
Jomo Mojo writes: \> Williams lived in a time and place where original thinkers could \> strike out on their own and and conduct original explorations \> wherever they led. Christianity in America nowadays has \> become so much more formulaic, unimaginative, and \> straightjacketed, what with creeps like Pat Robinson and Jerry \> Fallwell and their ilk. Are Robertson and Falwell actually that popular today, or do they just have better PR agents? They both strike me as having become famous mostly because some TV producer said, “Hey, we need to have some religious figure interviewed on our show about this hot topic. Who do we have?”, and then a beleagured researcher with no real interest or knowledge about religion said, “Well, here’s a PR flyer from some organization headed by some preacher who likes to froth at the mouth with his opinions on this subject. Let’s put him on the show and have him go through his rant.” Charles Williams isn’t unknown these days. I’ve been reading his books for the past thirty years. If you get into C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien seriously enough, at some point you will be told to try Williams too, since he was a friend of theirs. Furthermore, Williams was hardly a particularly popular writer back in 1930’s and 1940’s England either. He has always been somewhat of a cult item. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2003, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-seriously-religious-characters/157031/77 "2003-03-02T18:46:02Z")
After reading Humphrey Carpenter’s group biography _The Inklings_\*, I had to check out Charles Williams. I think the section on Williams in _The Inklings_ is probably the best introduction to his religious/occultist thought and how he put it into his novels. Carpenter has a deep understanding of what Williams was trying to say and presents it fascinatingly. **Wendell Wagner** , I just named Fallwell and Robertson as the poster boys, as shorthand for what is going wrong with Christianity these days—not only Christianity, but just about all religions these days, in which fundamentalism is turning people cruder, coarser, more hateful and intolerant. This tendency is trying to enforce a stultifying conformity on the faithful, eliminate the asking of questions, and keep the sheep herded into their narrow little pens. Look at the fundies Bush and Usamah trying to divide the world between them and mutually squeeze out all the non-fundies who have no place in their schemes. People who cannot accept that are being driven out of religion altogether and wind up atheists or agnostics. (Like Tariq Ali, author of _The Clash of Fundamentalisms_.) Personally, I am now struggling to maintain my faith in the face of all this ugliness posing as religion. The world is becoming inhospitable for religious people who want to keep open minds and explore further dimensions of the unknown. People like William Blake and Charles Williams, two English originals. I didn’t say that Williams was a big hit at any time or place; I know he has always been a specialized taste for a discriminating few. But at least a boldly original thinker like him could exist in England in the 1930s and '40s. Conditions today seem unfavorable for that sort of thinker to arise. Please prove me wrong. Is there anyone today comparable to Charles Williams? I hope I am wrong. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2003, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-seriously-religious-characters/157031/78 "2003-03-02T20:05:20Z")
all of a kind family, a set of books about a jewish family in turn-of-the-century new york city. william x kienzle’s series about a catholic priest in detroit. harry kemelman’s rabbi small series. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2003, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-seriously-religious-characters/157031/79 "2003-03-02T20:30:13Z")
**FriarTed** - May I ask where you found the Charles Williams books? I cannot locate them anywhere, and I have wanted to read one since I first heard them described. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2003, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-seriously-religious-characters/157031/80 "2003-03-02T22:30:50Z")
Here’s a bibliography of the works of the Inklings: [http://www.mythsoc.org/inklings.html](http://www.mythsoc.org/inklings.html) Williams’s books have been in print pretty much continuously. You can order them from any of the large online bookstores. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-seriously-religious-characters/157031.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-with-seriously-religious-characters/157031.md?page=5)