# Boomers: Are older people really more experienced (in a meaningful way)? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 7, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boomers-are-older-people-really-more-experienced-in-a-meaningful-way/502238 "2009-07-07T19:39:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boomers-are-older-people-really-more-experienced-in-a-meaningful-way/502238/161 "2009-07-14T20:27:47Z")
> [@ashman165](#): > > I find it hard to imagine that there are people who learned sometime between 20 and 40 years of life that being hasty is generally unwise if they didn’t learn that between 0 and 20 years. Indeed, I would suggest that shows in such a person a sub-normal intellect because despite all the examples in life where rash decisions were made with bad results, it took them twice as long to learn it as it took the people I know. Or, it would show in them a willful fashion to resist knowledge. That’s unlikely to be cured by the mere accumulation of new information since those types of people have an immunity from such. I can’t explain your limited imagination, but I think it’s nonsense that you believe one doesn’t learn anything between age 20-40 that they didn’t already know at age 0-20. At age 20 I was living in a fraternity house with 35 other guys doing nothing but schoolwork, athletics and drinking. Hardly the epitome of a mature lifestyle. Yes, there are some core principles for life that I had already learned by that point, but I had never needed to apply them in the ways that I did from age 20-40. Even just at work, having been in the working world for 15 means I’ve seen and done more things than some kid 1 year out of college. He thinks he has everything figured out because it’s all new and exciting, but I’ve seen it tried before and have actual perspective on how it turns out. > [@ashman165](#): > > The amount of time one does something doesn’t improve their ability to do it well. The adage isn’t practice makes perfect; it’s practice makes permanent. For the experience to be meaningfully used, as I said earlier, the person will have to want that. It certainly does. No one just masters anything by picking it up. Pick any field and show me how someone can just show up and do a better job than a person who has been working at it for 10,000 hours? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boomers-are-older-people-really-more-experienced-in-a-meaningful-way/502238/162 "2009-07-14T20:36:50Z")
> [@ashman165](#): > > One wonders why such an unseasoned person was put in charge of, or allowed to have substantial influence over by the more seasoned people in the first instance. > > Of course, your argument that _some_ young people lack seasoning and wisdom hardly does anything to alter my argument that _some_ younger folks are better situated in both regards than _some_ older people. So, congratulations on arguing a necessary corollary. If _some_ young people are more experienced and wise than _some_ older folks, it’s necessarily the case that _some_ do not. One would think a little logical reasoning would make as much quite plain. The simple answer is that unseasoned people often have an unbridled passion and naively positive attitude. Employers, especially incompetant ones, like that because they can set them to a task and they will kill themselves trying to complete it. They think that they will be superstars and fast-tracked to huge salaries and positions of authority in a few years or months. Older people often have had their enthusiasm tempered by experience (often negative). They have seen and experienced how poor management and naive inexperience leads to a clusterfuck nad how that it is far more likely those young people will burn out long before they ever achieve their goals. Another possibility is that a younger person may have specific experience that the older people don’t have. I was younger than most of my coworkers in my last job and yet I was the most senior. That was do to my specific education and work experience. If I decide to be, say an attorney, now at age 36, most likely I will be junior compared to Associates or even Partners who are 30ish who have been practicing since they were 25. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boomers-are-older-people-really-more-experienced-in-a-meaningful-way/502238/163 "2009-07-14T21:33:15Z")
I can not speak for other fields, but when a graduate engineer comes into a company, he will be taught his job. He will have a lot to learn and it takes a long time. If you think you could walk in and be valuable, you would be kidding yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boomers-are-older-people-really-more-experienced-in-a-meaningful-way/502238/164 "2009-07-14T23:07:14Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Older people often have had their enthusiasm tempered by experience (often negative). They have seen and experienced how poor management and naive inexperience leads to a clusterfuck nad how that it is far more likely those young people will burn out long before they ever achieve their goals. We were going to put employee photos in our directory. Our company is geographically diverse - most of the team members on my teams I’ve never met it person. My response to this was “good, now I’ll know if someone is just young and naive and there is hope they will outgrow it.” ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boomers-are-older-people-really-more-experienced-in-a-meaningful-way/502238/165 "2009-07-14T23:21:15Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > I can not speak for other fields, but when a graduate engineer comes into a company, he will be taught his job. He will have a lot to learn and it takes a long time. If you think you could walk in and be valuable, you would be kidding yourself. In many fields like being a CPA accountant or civil enginer, you can’t even become certified in your profession unless you have a certain number of years of practical work experience. ---
**Author:** ![ashman165](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@ashman165](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ashman165)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boomers-are-older-people-really-more-experienced-in-a-meaningful-way/502238/166 "2009-07-14T23:35:37Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > I can not speak for other fields, but when a graduate engineer comes into a company, he will be taught his job. He will have a lot to learn and it takes a long time. If you think you could walk in and be valuable, you would be kidding yourself. It must be great to work in a field where you walk in with a Ph.D. and are told from the outset that you’re useless. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boomers-are-older-people-really-more-experienced-in-a-meaningful-way/502238/167 "2009-07-15T00:39:35Z")
> [@ashman165](#): > > It must be great to work in a field where you walk in with a Ph.D. and are told from the outset that you’re useless. Right, because the other PhDs who have been there 20 years don’t know anything. It’s like what I used to tell new hires. Their education and work experience got them a job with the company. Now that they are here, they need to prove themselves all over again because all their coworkers have a similar background and education. ---
**Author:** ![ashman165](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@ashman165](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ashman165)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boomers-are-older-people-really-more-experienced-in-a-meaningful-way/502238/168 "2009-07-15T01:00:10Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Right, because the other PhDs who have been there 20 years don’t know anything. > > It’s like what I used to tell new hires. Their education and work experience got them a job with the company. Now that they are here, they need to prove themselves all over again because all their coworkers have a similar background and education. He’s the one who said people going to work where he works with a _graduate_ degree would have _no value_. That must really suck. “Hey, welcome to our office, you suck and aren’t worth a shit. Stand there and be grateful we let you bask in our glory.”☹ ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boomers-are-older-people-really-more-experienced-in-a-meaningful-way/502238/169 "2009-07-15T03:10:33Z")
> [@ashman165](#): > > He’s the one who said people going to work where he works with a _graduate_ degree would have _no value_. That must really suck. “Hey, welcome to our office, you suck and aren’t worth a shit. Stand there and be grateful we let you bask in our glory.”☹ He said “walk in and be valuable”. It’s pretty obvious that he’s saying that in his field, educational experience/graduate degrees merely represents some bit of potential value, and converting that to actual value (the kind that produces dollars instead of mere test results and research papers) takes a bit more time in the real world to learn. Yeah, you continue to cement my impression of you as a young, angry wannabe academic. Maybe as old as a first-year master’s student. Couldn’t get a job when you got your bachelor’s degree, likely because its in something like rhetoric that means essentially you start at the bottom of something because it’s not a specialist workforce skill, and you’re bitter about that. Anyone who’s been in the real world in a workforce will know that all the sterile academic practice in the world gets you only to the very start of the path–I don’t care WHAT your field is. And yes, you still remind me of myself a decade ago. When I knew everything. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boomers-are-older-people-really-more-experienced-in-a-meaningful-way/502238/170 "2009-07-15T03:12:42Z")
Here’s what I think; Getting smarter / wiser with age is sort of like reading books. (Stay with me!) No matter how many books you read there are always some more. Life experience is like that, I think. You don’t get smarter / wiser from reading books or having life experiences alone. You get smarter / wiser when you take something away with you, from what you read, or what you experience. ---
**Author:** ![ashman165](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@ashman165](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ashman165)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boomers-are-older-people-really-more-experienced-in-a-meaningful-way/502238/171 "2009-07-15T07:44:47Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > He said “walk in and be valuable”. It’s pretty obvious that he’s saying that in his field, educational experience/graduate degrees merely represents some bit of potential value, and converting that to actual value (the kind that produces dollars instead of mere test results and research papers) takes a bit more time in the real world to learn. Look, you have a dual standard stupidity you’ll accept as convincing: what one says, and what you want one to have said. You’re surely free to be as naive as you’d like, but your inability to be logically consistent isn’t, um, persuasive. Here’s a protip: ignorance and logical incompatibility aren’t arguments. > [@](#): > > Yeah, you continue to cement my impression of you as a young, angry wannabe academic. Maybe as old as a first-year master’s student. Couldn’t get a job when you got your bachelor’s degree, likely because its in something like rhetoric that means essentially you start at the bottom of something because it’s not a specialist workforce skill, and you’re bitter about that. Yes, by being recognized in my field I’m naturally angry. Woe is me. It’s curious how you claim all of this wisdom and then you come up with something based on no evidence. Here’s an equally like story of you: maybe you decided in your 20s that being a pedophile would be a great idea and then set about raping all the children you could find, unbeknownst to the police. We each have an equal about of information to support our claims. It’s also curious that you even think I require a job. The assumptions which go into your “reasoning” are numerous and quite faulty. But that’s okay, let’s not let a little thing like reality burst your bubble. > [@](#): > > Anyone who’s been in the real world in a workforce will know that all the sterile academic practice in the world gets you only to the very start of the path–I don’t care WHAT your field is. So, your response is essentially that you have a view and don’t care what anyone can say contrary to it. Yup, that sounds about right up your alley. Keep those fingers in your ears, dear. > [@](#): > > And yes, you still remind me of myself a decade ago. When I knew everything. Well, it would seem you still think you do irrespective of all of the evidence to the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![ashman165](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@ashman165](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ashman165)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boomers-are-older-people-really-more-experienced-in-a-meaningful-way/502238/172 "2009-07-15T07:51:55Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Here’s what I think; > > Getting smarter / wiser with age is sort of like reading books. > > (Stay with me!) > > No matter how many books you read there are always some more. Life experience is like that, I think. > > You don’t get smarter / wiser from reading books or having life experiences alone. > > You get smarter / wiser when you take something away with you, from what you read, or what you experience. This is essentially been my argument, but we’ve got some people who are old, and hopefully, losing the fight to continually pollute the intellect of the world by simply remaining not dead who want to argue that age = wisdom. Or experience = wisdom. Or something along those lines. Of course, I took a different position that it’s hasty generalization which demonstrably false in many, many conditions and by any definitions of the words. This has resulted in, essentially, some conceit that because I refuse to let someone say “because I’m older than you are, I’m necessary more experienced, wiser, smarter than you” because it’s a complete bullshit. In some cases it’s true. In others it isn’t. And if it isn’t true in some cases, then the line of reasoning _as suggested_ falls down and is complete and utter bullshit. Of course, essentially I’m told to get off their lawn. And these people who seemingly don’t value a proper education want me to take their word for it even when they can’t write out a single, grammatically correct sentence. Sorry, old bats, where I grew up, functional illiteracy wasn’t a point in anyone’s favor. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boomers-are-older-people-really-more-experienced-in-a-meaningful-way/502238/173 "2009-07-15T08:13:18Z")
> [@ashman165](#): > > It’s also curious that you even think I require a job. The assumptions which go into your “reasoning” are numerous and quite faulty. But that’s okay, let’s not let a little thing like reality burst your bubble. Except for children still financially supported by their parents, everyone needs a job of some kind. Because it’s obvious you won’t survive on your wits alone. I guess it’s possible you married into money or created the ultimate whats-it at 12 and are living off the royalties, but somehow I doubt it. And your continued tap dancing around just what it is you do (when it would be extremely relevant to the thread and your point) makes me side with **Zeriel**. If it’s not some esoteric vanity degree, I’ll eat my hat. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boomers-are-older-people-really-more-experienced-in-a-meaningful-way/502238/174 "2009-07-15T08:14:36Z")
A feature of aging that all my peers seem to agree on is the almost magical way one no longer gives a rat’s ass what random other people think, especially about superficial things. You disengage completely from requiring the approval of other people. It’s marvelous. (I have always been way out in front on this, since I was a kid. But even with me, it’s expanded with age.) ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boomers-are-older-people-really-more-experienced-in-a-meaningful-way/502238/175 "2009-07-15T13:05:57Z")
ashman, you’ll get eaten alive if you ever go into the corporate world. Or else you’ll trip over your dick a bunch of times while us fogeys silently laugh at you. You’ll probably stay in academia, where it looks like you’re quite suited. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boomers-are-older-people-really-more-experienced-in-a-meaningful-way/502238/176 "2009-07-15T13:27:41Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > A feature of aging that all my peers seem to agree on is the almost magical way one no longer gives a rat’s ass what random other people think, especially about superficial things. You disengage completely from requiring the approval of other people. It’s marvelous. > > (I have always been way out in front on this, since I was a kid. But even with me, it’s expanded with age.) Oooh … goody! I’m looking forward to this part. Everyone bitches & moans about the bad stuff of growing old - I’m female and maybe that skews things - so thanks for putting out a very specific and truly awesome nugget of info about one “feature” of aging I think I’ll find very appealing. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boomers-are-older-people-really-more-experienced-in-a-meaningful-way/502238/177 "2009-07-15T13:37:54Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > I can not speak for other fields, but when a graduate engineer comes into a company, he will be taught his job. He will have a lot to learn and it takes a long time. If you think you could walk in and be valuable, you would be kidding yourself. > [@ashman165](#): > > [**gonzomax is**] the one who said people going to work where he works with a _graduate_ degree would have _no value_. > [@ashman165](#): > > Look, you have a dual standard stupidity you’ll accept as convincing: what one says, and what you want one to have said. Be assured you have convinced us of your stupidity. He did not say they’d have no value, as you want him to have said. He said they wouldn’t be valuable (at the beginning). There’s a difference. I’d explain that difference to someone who I thought might have some interest in understanding it, but in this case I won’t waste my breath (and yes, I know it’s not literally breath - it’s metaphorical). ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boomers-are-older-people-really-more-experienced-in-a-meaningful-way/502238/178 "2009-07-15T14:23:39Z")
> [@ashman165](#): > > He’s the one who said people going to work where he works with a _graduate_ degree would have _no value_. That must really suck. “Hey, welcome to our office, you suck and aren’t worth a shit. Stand there and be grateful we let you bask in our glory.”☹ Heh, think of getting a degree as being sort of like getting a licence to drive. It is a necessity for being allowed to do the activity at all, but it is no guarantee of ability. On average, who would you trust to drive - someone who just got their license, or someone who has been driving accident-free for 20 years? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boomers-are-older-people-really-more-experienced-in-a-meaningful-way/502238/179 "2009-07-15T14:37:13Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Heh, think of getting a degree as being sort of like getting a licence to drive. It is a necessity for being allowed to do the activity at all, but it is no guarantee of ability. On average, who would you trust to drive - someone who just got their license, or someone who has been driving accident-free for 20 years? Let me see if I can predict **ashman** ’s response. Ashy, don’t look until you respond… Well, who’s to say they won’t get in an accident tomorrow? Also, you used the British spelling for license. If you can’t learn to communicate in the dialect of those you are speaking with, I have no need for your unfounded opinions. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boomers-are-older-people-really-more-experienced-in-a-meaningful-way/502238/180 "2009-07-15T16:16:13Z")
> [@ashman165](#): > > It must be great to work in a field where you walk in with a Ph.D. and are told from the outset that you’re useless. You will learn it yourself. Nobody tells you how worthless you are. Why would they? Why are you so defensive.?They simply assign you beginning level tasks until you are up to speed. The education level does not always translate to becoming a better engineer. You need a degree to enter, so you are not so special. An advanced degree does not mean you will grasp the practical applications of engineering in a better way. You will be brought along slowly and tested often. You very likely will feel useless. An advanced degree may open some doors, but you still have to prove yourself. over and over. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boomers-are-older-people-really-more-experienced-in-a-meaningful-way/502238.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boomers-are-older-people-really-more-experienced-in-a-meaningful-way/502238.md?page=10)