# Bootleg Movies Suck **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 5, 2004, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bootleg-movies-suck/278196 "2004-12-05T08:30:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RealTronic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9dc877/32.png) [@RealTronic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealTronic)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bootleg-movies-suck/278196/21 "2004-12-07T02:34:23Z")
> [@Baldwin](#): > > I hope that, at least occasionally, somebody goes to jail for this stuff. If this were the _Pit_ I’d reply to that; but I won’t. Suffice to say, yes, people are being “hunted” down for videorecording movies in theaters, but Osama Bin Laden is still on the loose… (OK, sorry, VERY simplifed and unjust comparison, but you get the picture…) ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bootleg-movies-suck/278196/22 "2004-12-07T10:23:21Z")
> [@RealTronic](#): > > If this were the _Pit_ I’d reply to that; but I won’t. > > Suffice to say, yes, people are being “hunted” down for videorecording movies in theaters, but Osama Bin Laden is still on the loose… > > (OK, sorry, VERY simplifed and unjust comparison, but you get the picture…) OK, let’s put this in simple terms. I’m by no means a professional writer, but I’ve freelanced a few magazine articles in my time - I was paid {not much} for my work, but retain the copyright. That constitutes intellectual property - I get to decide who can make copies of my work: anyone who does so has to pay for the rights to use my property. Again, not much money, but I’d be very pissed off to see anyone using my work without my permission and not paying me - as I stated in my earlier post, that’s theft. When it comes to Hollywood movies the order of financial magnitude is obviously far greater, but the principle remains exactly the same. Let’s suppose you have been slaving away on a first novel: you finish it, send it off, and it does the rounds of the publishers: you’re surprised and gratified when it’s accepted. Astonishingly, it becomes a runaway success - goes into numerous reprints, the movie rights are optioned, the publishers and public are slavering for a sequel, the movie looks like being made, with you as script consultant and Brad Pitt as the star - and then you find that an oufit in South-East Asia has been running off bootleg copies of your magnum opus and turning a fat profit, at virtually no cost, off the fruits of your labours over all those cold nights in that lonely garret of yours, with only the mice for company. Are you going to shrug and say, “information wants to be free”, or are you going to be on the phone to your lawyers? No, don’t bother to answer. Your Bin Laden comparison is naive and irrelevant: are you suggesting that the police should ignore all illegal activities less serious than terrorism until the “war on terror” has been won and Bin Laden has been captured or killed? ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bootleg-movies-suck/278196/23 "2004-12-07T11:07:08Z")
I think the most well-presented argument on this subject that I’ve ever heard came from this guy Chet who I met in a subway station. For just $5 he was offering his opinion on all kinds of controversial subjects. I asked him what he thought about intellectual property theft. He had this to say: > [@Chet from the subway station](#): > > OK, let’s put this in simple terms. I’m by no means a professional writer, but I’ve freelanced a few magazine articles in my time - I was paid {not much} for my work, but retain the copyright. That constitutes intellectual property - I get to decide who can make copies of my work: anyone who does so has to pay for the rights to use my property. Again, not much money, but I’d be very pissed off to see anyone using my work without my permission and not paying me - as I stated in my earlier post, that’s theft. When it comes to Hollywood movies the order of financial magnitude is obviously far greater, but the principle remains exactly the same. > > Let’s suppose you have been slaving away on a first novel: you finish it, send it off, and it does the rounds of the publishers: you’re surprised and gratified when it’s accepted. Astonishingly, it becomes a runaway success - goes into numerous reprints, the movie rights are optioned, the publishers and public are slavering for a sequel, the movie looks like being made, with you as script consultant and Brad Pitt as the star - and then you find that an oufit in South-East Asia has been running off bootleg copies of your magnum opus and turning a fat profit, at virtually no cost, off the fruits of your labours over all those cold nights in that lonely garret of yours, with only the mice for company. Are you going to shrug and say, “information wants to be free”, or are you going to be on the phone to your lawyers? No, don’t bother to answer. > > Your Bin Laden comparison is naive and irrelevant: are you suggesting that the police should ignore all illegal activities less serious than terrorism until the “war on terror” has been won and Bin Laden has been captured or killed? Well said, **Chet from the subway station**. Well said, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bootleg-movies-suck/278196/24 "2004-12-07T12:44:12Z")
Thanks, **bienville** - I think. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bootleg-movies-suck/278196/25 "2004-12-07T12:51:38Z")
My brother in law showed up the other day with 10 bootlegged movies that he had paid $75 for. He apparently asked the guy for 10 movies that haven’t been released in Australian cinemas yet or have only just been released. Among them was at least one romantic comedy, which I bet he would never have paid to see at a cinema or on DVD anyway, and a couple of other movies that I couldn’t imagine him being very interested in. I don’t understand why he would pay $7.50 each for ten movies of lousy quality, many of which he probably won’t even like (maybe not even watch!) when he could pay $12.50 to see those six of those movies at the cinema in all their glory with surround sound and atmosphere and all that stuff. ---
**Author:** ![hlanelee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@hlanelee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hlanelee)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bootleg-movies-suck/278196/26 "2004-12-07T13:23:31Z")
For the record: Boot-leg whiskey is for shit, too. You get what you pay for. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bootleg-movies-suck/278196/27 "2004-12-07T15:29:25Z")
I find it interesting that they get better audio on the cam bootlegs by hooking into the theater’s supplemental sound system, which is meant for the hearing-impaired. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bootleg-movies-suck/278196/28 "2004-12-07T16:29:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Suffice to say, yes, people are being “hunted” down for videorecording movies in theaters, but Osama Bin Laden is still on the loose… Well maybe if BlackKnight’s brother and all his friends quit hanging around watching bootleg movies all day… ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bootleg-movies-suck/278196/29 "2004-12-07T17:32:09Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > Well maybe if BlackKnight’s brother and all his friends quit hanging around watching bootleg movies all day… …or if the people that made bootlegs centered their operations at an uncertain spot along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border… ---
**Author:** ![Odinoneeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/97f17d/32.png) [@Odinoneeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odinoneeye)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bootleg-movies-suck/278196/30 "2004-12-07T21:57:28Z")
I used to be very naive. My ex brought home a copy of Blue Streak which was still in the theaters at the time. So we start watching it. All of the sudden, I say, “Wait a minute, someone just took a camera into the theater.” I had no clue anyone did that. I watched the rest of the movie more out of watching for people walking in front of the camera and listening to people whispering. I didn’t bother to watch Deep Blue Sea when she brought that home. ---
**Author:** ![shamrock227](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@shamrock227](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shamrock227)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bootleg-movies-suck/278196/31 "2004-12-07T22:15:00Z")
I bought a couple of bootlegs _once_. I really don’t remember how much I paid - I’m going to guess and say $10 each. I had seen the movies in the theater and wanted to send them to my sister who was in Iraq at the time. I opened the _X2_ just to see what it was like. After 10 minutes I trashed that one. It was completely unwatchable. I sent the rest to her unwatched and apologized in advance for what may or may not be watchable movies. I am one of those DVD ninnies that needs all the chaptering and extras and stuff so I was never tempted to purchase any bootlegs for myself. And after seeing the quality, I never will be either… ---
**Author:** ![RealTronic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9dc877/32.png) [@RealTronic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealTronic)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bootleg-movies-suck/278196/32 "2004-12-08T03:15:32Z")
> [@Case Sensitive](#): > > OK, let’s put this in simple terms…Your Bin Laden comparison is naive and irrelevant… First of all, you may have misinterpreted my post - or perhaps I was too vague. I am _not_ questioning the legality of copyrights and I am certainly _not_ condoning piracy of any copyrighted material in any way. I just want to state that first, so we get that out of the way. Further, in my discussion I will focus only on movies, not music, books or any other copyrighted material. What I question is a) the techniques used, b) the targets, and c) the greed of the movie industry. First of all, the techniques used; I’m talking about night vision goggles and metal detectors installed in movie theaters around the world. I think it’s an excaggereted and overly bigbrother-ish type of control which also can be interpreted as a breach of privacy to seom extent. What’s next? Body searches? Secondly, it seems that the DoD (heavily lobbyied by the MPAA I guess) are heavily targeting movie theaters, because they believe that over 90 per cent of all bootlegs stem from camrecordings in a movie theater. However, there are a few flaws in this thinking. Far from all camcording takes place in the US so cracking down hard on theater recording will have little to no effect on the overall availability of camcorder-bootlegs. Further, a better investment of time and money would be in the international market, to crack down on the organizations in (particularly) Southeast Asia and Russia whose main and only business is producing counterfeits. These organizations have the means to get source materials for their illegal copies no matter how many teenagers are caught in California bearing a videocamera. Yes, I know that Southeast Asia is outside the jurisdiction of the US Government, and yes, I know that some of the main proposals in the “DoJ Task Force on Intellectual Property” report pertained to increasing cooperation with foreign governments. I just think more efforts should be put there, where the main root of the problem is. Then we can talk about the bootlegs themselves. Far from all bootlegs come from people recording them in the theaters. As illustrated by last year’s events (Carmine Caridi “unsuspectingly” lending his Academy screeners to a friend) and the year before that (_all_ Academy screeners were on the Net within 1-2 days after reaching the members), plus the numerous “workprints” and VHS-Screener copies widely available as bootlegs, I’d say that the movie industry itself is by far the largest source of illegal copies. Finally, the “greed” of the movie industry. As the RIAA, it calculates every single bootleg copy as a lost sale of a legal copy. I have a hard time believing that is the case, so when the MPAA claims that the movie industry loses $3 billion every year due to piracy, I take that with a handful of salt. I think that movie piracy may hurt movie rentals, and to some extent DVD sales, but not as much as they claim. Most movies released do good business; first in the theaters, then on DVD, and then on pay-per-view etc. I’ve yet to see any evidence of movie piracy actually causing a movie to lose money. (This final statement does not mean, as I stated before, that I condone piracy in any way, I just question the validity of the claims made by the parties involved.) Finally, _Case Sensitive_, you complain that my Bin Laden comparison is “naive and irrelevant.” Yes, but I already stated as much in my original post; where I said it was “VERY simplified and unjust” - I most definately do not mean that every single law enforcement activity not dealing with terrorism should cease to exist; it was a comment made with some portion of humor. Sorry if I offended you in any way. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bootleg-movies-suck/278196/33 "2004-12-08T05:06:01Z")
> [@Case Sensitive](#): > > Thanks, **bienville** - I think. Psst. **cASE sENSETIVE** I think you are supposed to be calling your lawyer and getting really upset right about now. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bootleg-movies-suck/278196/34 "2004-12-08T08:58:14Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Psst. > **cASE sENSETIVE** I think you are supposed to be calling your lawyer and getting really upset right about now. Shhhh! Damned Narc! ---
**Author:** ![Windwalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5e9695/32.png) [@Windwalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Windwalker)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bootleg-movies-suck/278196/35 "2004-12-08T09:27:36Z")
Here in Shanghai, I don’t even think you can find non-bootlegged copies of most things. I can’t tell for sure, since the legitimate-looking stores on big streets are selling DVDs for 10 RMB (which is equal to about US$1.25), but I wager that they’re bootlegs given the crappy English on some of the packaging (Roger Ebert says “Smashed funny with good hours of laughing”). The quality varies, but there are places that consistently have virtually perfect reproductions 99% of the time. And boy do you ever see those ‘foreign devils’ shelling out the moolah to cart them home by the wagonful… ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bootleg-movies-suck/278196/36 "2004-12-08T10:49:37Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Psst. > **cASE sENSETIVE** I think you are supposed to be calling your lawyer and getting really upset right about now. Yeah, I think I will sue - he quoted my post in its entirety AND stiffed me for the five bucks. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bootleg-movies-suck/278196/37 "2004-12-08T10:52:21Z")
> [@Case Sensitive](#): > > he quoted my post in its entirety AND stiffed me for the five bucks. **Chet from the subway station** is in BIG trouble now! I never liked him anyway. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bootleg-movies-suck/278196/38 "2004-12-08T22:01:35Z")
Your mate **Chet** is in for the shock of his life when the heavily armed paramilitary Shock Division of the Copyright Police come busting into his subway station wearing night-vision goggles, brandishing metal-detectors and wielding anal probes. That’ll learn him to lift MY posts without prior permission. ---
**Author:** ![thwartme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@thwartme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thwartme)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bootleg-movies-suck/278196/39 "2004-12-08T22:17:47Z")
Without in anyway advocating or condoning the creation or procurement of unlicensed reproductions of copyrighted materials… Some bootlegs rock. Even some cam caps are pretty good. Although for the most part nothing beats the theatre experience, some of them come darn close. If you watch them at all regularly, you get to know who to trust/who not to trust as far getting a decent quality product. As for the film in the OP, I saw Incredibles in the theatre on opening weekend. I saw it again the next weekend. That Sunday, I obtained a bootleg copy. It’s a bit grainy, but otherwise a decent image, nicely framed. No one walks in front of the camera, no extraneous crowd noise, no dropped scenes as the tape is changed, or whatever. Great sound, too. They must have been patched in somewhere. So I’ve now watched the Incredibles about six more times. And when the legit DVD comes out, I’ll buy it. And watch it again. thwartme ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bootleg-movies-suck/278196/40 "2004-12-08T23:17:37Z")
> [@START](#): > > I didn’t buy it, my friend did. Not to nitpick, but that really doesn’t matter. Your friend steals a DVD player, and you watch movies on it, you’re condoning his actions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bootleg-movies-suck/278196.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bootleg-movies-suck/278196.md?page=3)