# Border between Haiti and the Dominican Republic **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 13, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-between-haiti-and-the-dominican-republic/524785 "2010-01-13T15:25:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-between-haiti-and-the-dominican-republic/524785/1 "2010-01-13T15:25:04Z")
The earthquake got me to thinking… how heavily-patrolled or strongly-fortified, if at all, is the countries’ border? Given the chronic poverty and political upheaval of Haiti, I’d want to keep border controls pretty tight, if I were the DR leader. Any Dopers ever been there, or know about it? ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-between-haiti-and-the-dominican-republic/524785/2 "2010-01-13T16:40:39Z")
I got the impression from Jared Diamond’s book, _Collapse_, that the border there is similar to the US border with Mexico: patrolled but porous enough that Haitians seeking a better economy can get through. You can see the border in Google Maps without the label on by virtue of the [clear lines of deforestation](http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=19.152952,-71.698151&spn=0.958672,1.234589&t=k&z=10) on the Haitian side. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-between-haiti-and-the-dominican-republic/524785/3 "2010-01-14T04:01:17Z")
Some further data, although not really an answer to my question - looks like relations were improving even before the earthquake: [Dominican Republic aid to Haiti eases historic tensions - CNN.com](http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/13/haiti.earthquake.dominican.republic/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-between-haiti-and-the-dominican-republic/524785/4 "2010-01-14T04:07:46Z")
[Here’s](http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/local/2009/12/17/34228/Immigrants-crossed-Haiti-Dominican-border-in-droves-this-year) an article on the problem of illegal Haitian immigrants in the Dominican Republic this year. > [@](#): > > Haitian immigration this year has startled the border authorities and Dominicans who make a living in farms in communities the border provinces … > > Already there are communities where more than 80% of their inhabitants are of Haitian origin, after the original settlers moved to the cities in search of better conditions. > > … > > The border inhabitants say the migrants arrive by “flocks” and the Haitians themselves affirm that there’s no border control. > > Locals also say the undocumented migrants arrive in the dark of night as “mighty rivers” and see entire families in the moon light, whereas the Haitians who arrive on foot say it only takes them from three to six hours through the forest without fear of getting caught. > > Their story can be confirmed since the border guards don’t even have a mountain bike or functioning radio equipment. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-between-haiti-and-the-dominican-republic/524785/5 "2010-01-15T16:46:45Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > … You can see the border in Google Maps without the label on by virtue of the [clear lines of deforestation](http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=19.152952,-71.698151&spn=0.958672,1.234589&t=k&z=10) on the Haitian side. Exactly what I came in to say. The Haiti/DR border is one of the few (the only?) that you can actually see on geographical maps. You would think that patrolling it would be trivial and the fact that such a line exist would seem to indicate that there is some force keeping the sides separate. Alas, Colibri’s cite and the testimony of many Dominicans I know attests to the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-between-haiti-and-the-dominican-republic/524785/6 "2010-01-15T20:58:24Z")
the bit about border guards lacking basic equipment is surprising. The Wikipedia article about DR military [Armed Forces of the Dominican Republic - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_Dominican_Republic) describes a reasonably capable outfit, at least on paper. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2010, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-between-haiti-and-the-dominican-republic/524785/7 "2010-01-16T11:30:10Z")
> [@Sapo](#): > > Exactly what I came in to say. The Haiti/DR border is one of the few (the only?) that you can actually see on geographical maps. Spain-France is sort’a visible (the Pyrinees), as is France-Germany (the Rhein). ---
**Author:** ![UncleFred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f0a364/32.png) [@UncleFred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleFred)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-between-haiti-and-the-dominican-republic/524785/8 "2010-01-16T14:16:27Z")
On the (PBS?) news last night they showed the Dominican border crossing stations being tightened up, but little or no traffic actually coming from the Haitian side because people from Haiti were going off the road and circumventing the stations. They were going ‘through the hills’. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-between-haiti-and-the-dominican-republic/524785/9 "2010-01-16T17:08:48Z")
> [@Sapo](#): > > Exactly what I came in to say. The Haiti/DR border is one of the few (the only?) that you can actually see on geographical maps… Any river is going to do that, but much of the line between the US and Canada has a [swath of forest clear cut](http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=49.000549,-116.11388&spn=0.010403,0.01929&t=k&z=16) from Washington to Minnesota. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2010, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-between-haiti-and-the-dominican-republic/524785/10 "2010-01-16T22:32:21Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Spain-France is sort’a visible (the Pyrinees), as is France-Germany (the Rhein). > [@garygnu](#): > > Any river is going to do that, but much of the line between the US and Canada has a [swath of forest clear cut](http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=49.000549,-116.11388&spn=0.010403,0.01929&t=k&z=16) from Washington to Minnesota. Very interesting on the US-Canada border. Big rivers and mountains are not the same. The Haiti-DR border is really impressive to see from the airplane. Quite simply, one side is green, the other is brown. It is not a geographical feature that you are seeing that works as a natural divider. ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-between-haiti-and-the-dominican-republic/524785/11 "2010-01-17T18:23:52Z")
> [@Sapo](#): > > Exactly what I came in to say. The Haiti/DR border is one of the few (the only?) that you can actually see on geographical maps. You would think that patrolling it would be trivial and the fact that such a line exist would seem to indicate that there is some force keeping the sides separate. Alas, Colibri’s cite and the testimony of many Dominicans I know attests to the contrary. I checked large sections of Google Earth and really didn’t see anything that clearly and dramatically geographically shows a differences between the two countries. There are a few places where what looks like fields are different, but I don’t see large swaths of forest on one side of the border and brown nothing on the other side. Maybe a few places where there are some slight differences. The link from garygnu isn’t all that clear to me either. If I look around I see green areas abruptly bordered by brown areas, but I think that is an artifact of merging two sets of pictures instead of true differences. I’d be happy for someone to confirm or reassert this disconnect for me. ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-between-haiti-and-the-dominican-republic/524785/12 "2010-01-17T18:31:30Z")
> [@Sigene](#): > > I checked large sections of Google Earth and really didn’t see anything that clearly and dramatically geographically shows a differences between the two countries…I’d be happy for someone to confirm or reassert this disconnect for me. [Here’s one satellite image](http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=19.08863088300386~-71.57341766346877&lvl=9&sty=h). Take a look, then go to the “Aerial” dropdown menu and turn off the labels and look again. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-between-haiti-and-the-dominican-republic/524785/13 "2010-01-17T20:05:39Z")
> [@Sigene](#): > > I checked large sections of Google Earth and really didn’t see anything that clearly and dramatically geographically shows a differences between the two countries. There are a few places where what looks like fields are different, but I don’t see large swaths of forest on one side of the border and brown nothing on the other side. > Maybe a few places where there are some slight differences. > > The link from garygnu isn’t all that clear to me either. If I look around I see green areas abruptly bordered by brown areas, but I think that is an artifact of merging two sets of pictures instead of true differences. > > I’d be happy for someone to confirm or reassert this disconnect for me. Hunter Hawk’s link works very well. Flying over it in a commercial flight also makes it very visible. Please remember that reality is not as abrupt as clear cut as cartoons. It is not like one side is “Forest Deep” while the other is “Chocolate Delight”, but the difference is still very visible to the naked eye. You can clearly trace the border in that map. Notice that cities are not “Asphalt Grey” either. Now consider that there is no change in natural conditions that explains it. Just that “this is mine and this is yours”. I find it very curious and interesting as an example of how man changes his environment. ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-between-haiti-and-the-dominican-republic/524785/14 "2010-01-17T20:18:18Z")
How did the one island get divided in the first place, who drew the line and what is the border based on? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-between-haiti-and-the-dominican-republic/524785/15 "2010-01-18T01:20:30Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > How did the one island get divided in the first place, who drew the line and what is the border based on? [Accidents of history:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispaniola#History) > [@](#): > > As Spain conquered new regions on the mainland of the Americas, its interest in Hispaniola waned, and the colony’s population grew slowly. By the early 17th century, the island and its smaller neighbors (notably Tortuga) became regular stopping points for Caribbean pirates. In 1606, the king of Spain ordered all inhabitants of Hispaniola to move close to Santo Domingo, to avoid interaction with pirates. Rather than secure the island, however, this resulted in French, English and Dutch pirates establishing bases on the now-abandoned north and west coasts of the island. > > In 1665, French colonization of the island was officially recognized by King Louis XIV. The French colony was given the name Saint-Domingue, which became present-day Haiti. In the 1697 Treaty of Ryswick, Spain formally ceded the western third of the island to France. Saint-Domingue quickly came to overshadow the east in both wealth and population. Nicknamed the “Pearl of the Antilles,” it became the richest and most prosperous colony in the West Indies and one of the wealthiest in the world, cementing its status as the most important port in the Americas for goods and products flowing to and from Europe. After independence for Haiti, this reversed and Haiti became one of the poorest countries in the Americas and the Dominican Republic developed into the largest economy of Central America and the Caribbean. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-between-haiti-and-the-dominican-republic/524785/16 "2010-01-18T01:53:43Z")
Other islands are divided too, one example is St. Martin in the Caribbean which is part French and part Dutch. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-between-haiti-and-the-dominican-republic/524785/17 "2010-01-18T05:12:32Z")
And the island of Timor, which is Indonesian on the western (ex-Dutch) end and the nation of **Timor l’Este** (East Timor) on the eastern (ex-Portuguese) end. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-between-haiti-and-the-dominican-republic/524785/18 "2010-01-18T06:13:25Z")
And New Guinea, the western part of which is part of Indonesia and the eastern part independent. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-between-haiti-and-the-dominican-republic/524785/19 "2010-01-18T10:57:07Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > How did the one island get divided in the first place, who drew the line and what is the border based on? Most of the border goes along rivers, which is the norm around these latitudes. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-between-haiti-and-the-dominican-republic/524785/20 "2010-01-19T17:27:04Z")
For further illustration: > **[Una isla partida por la mitad | Noticias | elmundo.es](https://www.elmundo.es/america/2010/01/19/noticias/1263889868.html)** > > Una isla partida por la mitad El deterioro ambiental de Haití potencia su miseria y contrasta con el de la República Dominicana. El 98% de su territorio está deforestado. The article is in Spanish (I could translate it if someone reeeeally wanted it) and goes on the environmental degradation of Haiti contrasting it with the Dominican Republic. It is the photo that tells the whole story, of course. Needless to say, Haiti on the left, DR on the right. ETA: The article does mention that Haiti did have a small handicap for being on the leeward side of the island, although it is more than clear that that is not what is seen on this picture. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-between-haiti-and-the-dominican-republic/524785.md?page=2)