# Border Fence approved **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 30, 2006, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-fence-approved/374779 "2006-09-30T22:49:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-fence-approved/374779/61 "2006-10-06T22:59:13Z")
Approved, but maybe not paid for. [WAPO: In Border Fence’s Path, Congressional Roadblocks](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/05/AR2006100501935.html) > [@](#): > > No sooner did Congress authorize construction of a 700-mile fence on the U.S.-Mexico border last week than lawmakers rushed to approve separate legislation that ensures it will never be built, at least not as advertised, according to Republican lawmakers and immigration experts. > > _\_ > > Congress also hedged on when a fence would be completed. The law mandating it said Homeland Security officials should gain “operational control” of the border in 18 months. But the law funding it envisions five years. Chertoff has set a goal of two to three years, but only after completion of an immigration overhaul. ---
**Author:** ![dqa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dqa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dqa)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-fence-approved/374779/62 "2006-10-11T09:35:41Z")
In a further development on this issue, Mexico has [threatened](http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1102AP_Mexico_US_Border_Fence.html)to take its case against the fence to the United Nations. > [@](#): > > Luis Ernesto Derbez [foreign secretary] told reporters in Paris, his first stop on a European tour, that a legal investigation was under way to determine whether Mexico has a case. What international law or treaty obligations might the US be violating by building such a fence? ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-fence-approved/374779/63 "2006-10-11T13:09:18Z")
[QUOTE=CBEscapee] My point is that we feel that the wall is a slap in the face and that immigration can be resolved through negotiations. You yourself feel the wall will be worthless as a deterent and a waste of money. [/QUOTE] Is there a misunderstanding here perhaps? Do Mexicans crossing the border actually believe they are immigrating to the US? ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-fence-approved/374779/64 "2006-10-11T13:25:45Z")
[QUOTE=dqa] What international law or treaty obligations might the US be violating by building such a fence? [/QUOTE] Being the big, bad, US? This is the UN, after all. ---
**Author:** ![dqa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dqa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dqa)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-fence-approved/374779/65 "2006-10-11T19:11:43Z")
[QUOTE=athelas] > [@dqa](#): > > What international law or treaty obligations might the US be violating by building such a fence? Being the big, bad, US? This is the UN, after all. [/QUOTE] :rolleyes: I suppose I should have posted this in GQ. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-fence-approved/374779/66 "2006-10-11T19:42:46Z")
[QUOTE=Rodgers01] As people have said before, there is no proposal for a fence on the Canadian border, because Canadians are not illegally pouring over the border at anything like the rate that Mexicans are. [/QUOTE] Maybe not Canadians, but quite a few others are coming across the northern border. > [@](#): > > From their Huntington Beach facility, Boeing Co. engineers crafted a plan to line the Mexican border with 1,800 towers equipped with sensors that can detect when a person steps onto American soil. > > Infrared cameras will sense the body heat of possible intruders, and radars will track vehicles that may carry illegal immigrants and drugs into the United States. On Thursday, Boeing’s plan won a key contract, one that could lead to a virtual fence along 7,500 miles of the U.S.’ borders with Mexico a **nd Canada**. Source: [Boeing Is Awarded Border Contract](http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-border22sep22,1,1701605.story?coll=la-headlines-business) They may not be Mexicans and others from Central and South America, but friends along the northern border tell me it’s everyone else instead, including [drugs](http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/07/21/border.tunnel/). One deputy sheriff I had the opportunity to speak with while on a wildland fire near the border told me that most of the people they catch are Asian, or from the Middle East, in addition to the drug planes. > [@](#): > > In March, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) – an investigative arm of the U.S. Congress – made a startling announcement. In a test of border security procedures, GAO investigators, using forged documentation, managed to transport radioactive material past U.S. border agents at two entry points on the Canadian border. > > Gregory Kutz, chief of special investigations at the GAO, told Congress that the radioactive material was discovered by detection equipment. But, he said, the phony documentation was never challenged by the Customs and Border Patrol (CBP) agents. > > “Although both of our vehicles were inspected in accordance with CBP policy, we were able to enter the United States with enough radioactive sources to make two dirty bombs. The CBP inspectors never validated the existence of our fictitious company, or the authenticity of the counterfeit bill of lading and NRC [Nuclear Regulatory Commission] documents,” says Kutz. Source: [http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2006-07/Securing2006-07-19-voa46.cfm](http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2006-07/Securing2006-07-19-voa46.cfm) Crossing the US-Canadian border is a cakewalk, compared to the US-Mexican border. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-fence-approved/374779/67 "2006-10-12T03:20:00Z")
[QUOTE=Grey] Is there a misunderstanding here perhaps? Do Mexicans crossing the border actually believe they are immigrating to the US? [/QUOTE] Obviously some do. What’s your point? Semantics? ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-fence-approved/374779/68 "2006-10-12T11:33:11Z")
I was just curious. So in your opinion the majority of people crossing into the United States understand that they are acting in an illegal manner. If so, then a majority of Mexicans likely understand that it is an illegal act. So why wouldn’t you frame it as an “Illegal Immigration Problem” to be negotiated between the two countries? I may have misunderstood you, but framing it as an “Immigration Problem” implies that the issue is one of securing legitimate means of legal access to the US. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-fence-approved/374779/69 "2006-10-12T12:30:40Z")
[QUOTE=Grey] I was just curious. So in your opinion the majority of people crossing into the United States understand that they are acting in an illegal manner. If so, then a majority of Mexicans likely understand that it is an illegal act. So why wouldn’t you frame it as an “Illegal Immigration Problem” to be negotiated between the two countries? I may have misunderstood you, but framing it as an “Immigration Problem” implies that the issue is one of securing legitimate means of legal access to the US. [/QUOTE] There is a demand for low cost labor. It is also illegal for US employers to hire them. Americans rent or sell them homes. US banks allow them to open accounts and on and on. It involves people immigrating. If you want to use “illegal” to describe it, who cares? It is about securing legal access no matter how you “frame” it. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-fence-approved/374779/70 "2006-10-12T14:50:27Z")
We seem to have a logical breakdown here. The USA is trying to prevent illegal immigration from mexico. mexico doesn’t like this, yet Mexico refuse to allow immigration from Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvator, etc. The USA emplys illegal immigrants 9in violation of federal laws). A Massachusetts gubnatorial candiddate (Deval patrick) advocates issueing drivers licences to illegal aliens. Why doesn’t the USA adopt a reasonable stance? issue work permits to aliens, make them pay taxes (no more underground economy), and control immigration. And mexico had better start caring for its OWN illegal aliens, instead of beating them and deporting them! ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-fence-approved/374779/71 "2006-10-12T17:06:12Z")
[QUOTE=CBEscapee] There is a demand for low cost labor. It is also illegal for US employers to hire them. Americans rent or sell them homes. US banks allow them to open accounts and on and on. It involves people immigrating. If you want to use “illegal” to describe it, who cares? It is about securing legal access no matter how you “frame” it. [/QUOTE] Look, I’m stuck in the frozen north, oddly enough daily doses of Mexican demands for greater immigration access to the US don’t show up here a lot. Is Mexico asking for increased worker visa/permits? If so, how would an increase in the number of legal avenues to migrate decrease the number of people knowingly following illegal methods? Is Mexico asking for an increase in prosecuting US citizens that knowingly break the law to bring Mexicans across the border? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/border-fence-approved/374779.md?page=3)