# Borg vs. Jedi **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 27, 2011, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/borg-vs-jedi/597737 "2011-09-27T03:22:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/borg-vs-jedi/597737/21 "2011-09-27T12:01:52Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > The Borg always lose. The Jedi only lose to other Jedi. Not true, Count Dooku’s droids were able to kill an ass load of them in AOTC. Remember Anakin even saying: “You’re going to pay for all the Jedi that you killed today.” ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/borg-vs-jedi/597737/22 "2011-09-27T12:22:17Z")
But they won the battle - and the only reason the Jedi lost the war is that they were up against the Sith, who were also Jedi. So yes - a single, individual, nameless Jedi operating alone might no be able to defeat a Borg cube. Granted. The Jedi Order operating as a whole would find a way to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/borg-vs-jedi/597737/23 "2011-09-27T13:21:00Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The Borg keep the biological abilities of anything they assimilate. That always was my pet peeve with the Borg – I mean, they don’t, do they? Even in the Star Trek universe, where people were not very imaginative with that sort of thing, there were some species with interesting innate biological capabilities – telepaths, for instance, and uh, I can’t think of much else actually. But nevertheless, the Borg should have access to the sum total of all these biological characteristics; yet Borg drones, without their tech, were pretty much standard issue boring humanoids. (Not that they ever used their tech to great effect, either – seems like all they ever were doing were waving jiggly bits on their appendages through the air, or projecting laser beams that didn’t seem to have any noticeable effect beyond making each Borg drone well equipped for spontaneous power point presentations. Hell, it took a ‘splinter’ collective even to hit upon the brilliant idea of maybe soldering some guns to their cyber-arms…) So it’s Jedi, just on account of general Borg lameness. ---
**Author:** ![Bakhesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Bakhesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bakhesh)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/borg-vs-jedi/597737/24 "2011-09-27T13:29:28Z")
Does the original Genndy Tartakovsky Clone wars cartoon count as canon? It has a sequence where Mace Windu goes up against an entire army of droids and wipes them out easily. Admittedly, Borg are slightly more impressive than combat droids, but it shows how a jedi couldn’t care less if he is outnumbered ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/borg-vs-jedi/597737/25 "2011-09-27T13:36:46Z")
Even if (and I doubt this) the Borg could adapt their shields to light sabres, there’s nothing stopping Jedi from picking up actual swords or something (just like Picard’s Holodeck Tommygun - Borg got squat against physical weapons, apparently) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/borg-vs-jedi/597737/26 "2011-09-27T13:40:24Z")
> [@Bakhesh](#): > > Does the original Genndy Tartakovsky Clone wars cartoon count as canon? It has a sequence where Mace Windu goes up against an entire army of droids and wipes them out easily. Admittedly, Borg are slightly more impressive than combat droids, but it shows how a jedi couldn’t care less if he is outnumbered [Q.E.D.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7A07WNupEXk) Abd yes, it’s canon. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/borg-vs-jedi/597737/27 "2011-09-27T13:55:47Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > But they won the battle - and the only reason the Jedi lost the war is that they were up against the Sith, who were also Jedi. No. The great majority of them were killed by clones on the issuance of “Order 66”. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/borg-vs-jedi/597737/28 "2011-09-27T14:09:23Z")
Clones acting at the command of a Jedi. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/borg-vs-jedi/597737/29 "2011-09-27T14:11:35Z")
So… taking orders from a Jedi makes you a Jedi? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/borg-vs-jedi/597737/30 "2011-09-27T14:14:47Z")
No, I’m saying that only a Jedi (or a Sith) could have masterminded the plot that placed the Jedi at the mercy of these clones. It was Jedi \*strategy \*that won. Prove me wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/borg-vs-jedi/597737/31 "2011-09-27T14:16:23Z")
Lightsabres and other force tricks are either magic or the are not. Establish this first, please. If they operate on some sort of exotic physics, then the Borg can and will adapt shielding _eventually_. If they are essentially magic then this debate is pointless. Assuming non magical Jedi; In a real world encounter, I can’t see _how_ the Jedi will win unless the Borg are foolish enough to make a strike at a major Jedi enclave. In small numbers the Jedi are often defeated in skirmishes, captured, or occasionally killed by lucky shots, or snipers. They overcome through creativity, exploiting mental weaknesses and excellent fighting technique. This is extremely effective against sentient, individualized opponents. The Borg on the other hand, are relentless and will either assimilate or kill everything in their path. They will adapt their approach and techniques to the circumstances. They are a directed swarm of zombies with protective technology. The Borg are freakin’ terrifying as an opponent. Lightsabres will be shielded, force tricks overcome through sheer numbers, as will fighting technique. The Jedi’s best bet is perhaps to try a concerted mind effort to steer the collective away and aim them somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/borg-vs-jedi/597737/32 "2011-09-27T14:17:47Z")
:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/borg-vs-jedi/597737/33 "2011-09-27T14:18:02Z")
Do you roll your eyes at me, sir? **Acid Lamp** : If the Borg are so powerful, how did Picard & Co. keep on beating them? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/borg-vs-jedi/597737/34 "2011-09-27T14:24:02Z")
My point is, the Jedi don’t have to be better than the Borg. All they have to be is better than Janeway. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/borg-vs-jedi/597737/35 "2011-09-27T14:30:16Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Do you roll your eyes at me, sir? > > **Acid Lamp** : If the Borg are so powerful, how did Picard & Co. keep on beating them? Leaving movies aside- In the first encounter, they depended upon the god-like Q to transport them halfway across the universe after suffering heavily. In the second they managed to recapture an assimilated Picard and learn enough to temporarily disable the cube and retreat. Generally speaking, the Borg are never truly defeated but merely put off, or lose a cube or small detachment. A concerted effort by the Borg would succeed to overwhelm most Federation planets. The problem is incurring heavy losses in doing so, they become vunerable to destruction at the hands of a group effort by others. The situation is more of a cold war, where the Borg occasionally take wandering ships but steer clear of Federation space enough to avoid outright war. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/borg-vs-jedi/597737/36 "2011-09-27T14:32:54Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Do you roll your eyes at me, sir? Yes. Yes I do. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/borg-vs-jedi/597737/37 "2011-09-27T14:33:54Z")
The Jedi should win, unless JarJar Binks is present, at which time I’d roll up my sleeves and lend the Borgs a hand. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/borg-vs-jedi/597737/38 "2011-09-27T15:43:53Z")
I’m having fun picturing Darth Vader pwning the shit out of the Borg. The Jedi can stay home. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Man_In_Black)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/borg-vs-jedi/597737/39 "2011-09-27T15:50:55Z")
> [@GreedySmurf](#): > > Plus, the drones to me are the epitome of being weak willed, the drones still have some level of personal consciousness, while still being controlled by the collective, and I think the jedi mind trick would work an absolute treat on borg drones. But for a ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/borg-vs-jedi/597737/40 "2011-09-27T15:51:10Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > Leaving movies aside- > > In the first encounter, they depended upon the god-like Q to transport them halfway across the universe after suffering heavily. In the second they managed to recapture an assimilated Picard and learn enough to temporarily disable the cube and retreat. Generally speaking, the Borg are never truly defeated but merely put off, or lose a cube or small detachment. A concerted effort by the Borg would succeed to overwhelm most Federation planets. The problem is incurring heavy losses in doing so, they become vunerable to destruction at the hands of a group effort by others. The situation is more of a cold war, where the Borg occasionally take wandering ships but steer clear of Federation space enough to avoid outright war. Bah. The Borg benefit greatly from Federation candyassness. A Jedi would realize that the cubes do not usually actively repel boarders, and place a nuke equivalent in the cube’s engine room. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/borg-vs-jedi/597737.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/borg-vs-jedi/597737.md?page=3)