# Boris Johnson asks the Queen to suspend Parliament. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 28, 2019, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350 "2019-08-28T10:51:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/101 "2019-09-07T16:37:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Northern Piper** : > > And what makes you think that Grammie Lilibet can suddenly pull a solution out of her purse that no-one else, experienced politicians and public figures, could figure out? The solution is easy, and plenty of people (including, I’d wager, most of Parliament) have figured it out. Repeal the Article 50, and stay in the EU. It’s just that nobody has the guts to do it. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/102 "2019-09-07T16:39:51Z")
That “solution” ignores the will of the people. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/103 "2019-09-07T16:59:33Z")
Exactly. Over half of the voters in the referendum voted for Artcle 50. If revoking Article 50 is such an easy solution, why hasn’t it been done? The answer is that it isn’t an easy solution. It’s a very hard solution, guaranteed to attract a great deal of political opposition. And the Queen has no political legitimacy to act against the will of a majority of the voters. A determined elected politician, backed by a majority in Parliament , could do it, and take the political consequences, but not an unelected head of state, whose role is to be the comforting national grammie. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/104 "2019-09-07T17:03:59Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > That “solution” ignores the will of the people. The problem is the “will of the people” is not uniform. Did the Leave voters know that it could very well mean a hard border with Ireland? That it would require building a vast system of customs offices at the ports? That the £350 million per week in savings was bullshit? (In fact, it might very well cost the UK _more_ than that in increased costs and lost business.) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/105 "2019-09-07T17:11:02Z")
Which isn’t to say the referendum was properly done. The British people were not asked, for example, “Do you want to leave the EU even if that means breaking treaty obligations under the Good Friday accords?” They weren’t asked “Do you want to leave the EU even if that means tariff and trade barriers to British goods being sold to the EU countries?” They weren’t asked “Do you want to leave the EU even if that means Britons won’t be able to live indefinitely in southern Spain?” Those are all issues which have arisen since the vote, and cast some doubt, to my mind, to its validity. But even if that’s so, that doesn’t name revocation of the Article 50 notification an easy choice. It’s a hard political choice, not one that the Queen could carry off. ETA: **Dewey Finn** popped in between my posts. This post is a continuation of my comment on **Ditka’s**. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/106 "2019-09-07T18:03:47Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Would you be equally content if the Queen said “The referendum was fair and we’re leaving the EU” ? > > But more to the point, why ask such a fundamentally anti-democratic question? What would your reaction be if a British person asked “Couldn’t the problems the US faces be resolved if you made Trump dictator, like the Roman Republic used to do in a crisis?” The question was though if it was possible. The question of whether a GOP Senate and a GOP leaning court could effectively allow, in some ways are allowing, a dictator Trump, whether or not that is theoretically possible, is one that gets discussed. And some on that side of the aisle would say it would be a great idea. We can intelligently discuss what does or does not prevent that. Many of us at least have some idea of how the checks and balances are set up here. Fewer of us understand how it works there. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/107 "2019-09-07T19:09:23Z")
The British monarchy sees its fundamental role as to ensure the continuation of responsible government in the UK. That incidentally is about the _only_ time the Queen will involve herself in politics. The Palace, no doubt if past precedent is anything, actively involved behind the scenes. Strongly making their views known. Openly taking a side will as said only me done if that is the only way to ensure the continuation of responsible Government. Which option suggested above could be that? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/108 "2019-09-07T20:39:53Z")
Which doesn’t answer the question. I for one am not suggesting it as a course of action or one that has any chance of occurring … but does the system (or maybe better asked as “how does the system …”) prevent it from occurring as a hypothetical other than by “past precedent”? Could they in fact just pass a Bill that started something like “Notwithstanding the Bill of Rights (1689), the Act of Settlement (1701)…”? (Again, in America we are seeing that a president willing to ignore all past precedents, and a Court and Senate willing to allow it in service of shared beliefs, can lurch pretty far, even with a system putatively designed with preventing such as a major goal. There are some who worry that it could lurch even farther.) ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/109 "2019-09-07T20:54:14Z")
As I understand it, something like 21 MPs were kicked out of the Conservative Party by Boris Johnson this week. Does that mean he no longer holds a voting majority? ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/110 "2019-09-07T21:09:57Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > As I understand it, something like 21 MPs were kicked out of the Conservative Party by Boris Johnson this week. Does that mean he no longer holds a voting majority? He’s technically 40-odd short now I think, but how the expelled members, and the others who have resigned, would vote on a confidence matter is not clear. Still, as we say in Scotland: his coat is hanging on a shoogly peg. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/111 "2019-09-07T21:27:16Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > (Again, in America we are seeing that a president willing to ignore all past precedents, and a Court and Senate willing to allow it in service of shared beliefs, can lurch pretty far, even with a system putatively designed with preventing such as a major goal. There are some who worry that it could lurch even farther.) Except nothing really similar is happening in the UK. Boris isn’t flouting convention, he’s just being an ass. And he’s being an ass mainly because he’s trying to bulldoze something extremely important without a true mandate from the people or support from Parliament. The guy is demanding a snap election to escape his mess, how is that a move toward autocracy? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/112 "2019-09-07T21:53:07Z")
It’s hard to say for certain, but I think without Russian bot farms, Brexit would have been defeated. It seems to me that the status quo should prevail unless there is a clear mandate from the people. 50% +1 isn’t enough in my opinion to make such a huge decision. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/113 "2019-09-07T21:56:22Z")
How much he is flouting convention or not, or says he might, is a not my question. It’s a hypothetical that in an era in which many countries, including my own, have had moves towards autocracy, is of interest to me once I read it presented by BobLibDem. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/114 "2019-09-07T22:39:52Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > It’s hard to say for certain, but I think without Russian bot farms, Brexit would have been defeated. It seems to me that the status quo should prevail unless there is a clear mandate from the people. 50% +1 isn’t enough in my opinion to make such a huge decision. This does seem reasonable; the referendum did fail to constitute a “clear mandate from the people,” and, additionally, Russian interference has been proven. There may be no precedent for such a situation. In such circumstances, how does making so major a change in the economic and political landscape make sense? ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/115 "2019-09-07T22:47:13Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The solution is easy, and plenty of people … have figured it out. Repeal the Article 50, and stay in the EU. Well that’d be my preferred position, but were I to have a vote in the UK I’d have been in a minority at the time when it mattered. After that it’s just Monday morning quarterbacking. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > It’s hard to say for certain, but I think without Russian bot farms, Brexit would have been defeated. I don’t think that it’s given that any 2nd referendum would deliver a different result, much less a clear result. > [@](#): > > It seems to me that the status quo should prevail unless there is a clear mandate from the people. Any majority represents a clear magority, unless you lose. It’s not like these boards have been without the odd thread over the years on what constitutes a clear majority and what constitutes the will of the people in the stateside context. Psephologist, heal thyself. If Brexit had got up 53-47 that would be a clear enough majority and yet the UK would likely be in much the same because each party is split near evenly into pro & con factions. Theresa May could barely have done better with the cards she was dealt, given the people barely supported the policy and her party barely supported the process. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/116 "2019-09-07T23:02:48Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Despite the big smiley that may be the answer that begins to reduce the ignorance of those of us who do not know. OK, well then given that Brexit might see the break up the UK with Scotland leaving the union to rejoin Europe and the hard partitioning of Ireland and potentially a civil war, the Brexit question would crudely be the equivalent to the US revoking the Declaration of Independence, with the popular vote con and the Electoral College pro. This is an existential question. It would be bloody hard and complicated enough if Britons were united on the question. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/117 "2019-09-07T23:26:41Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Which doesn’t answer the question. I for one am not suggesting it as a course of action or one that has any chance of occurring … but does the system (or maybe better asked as “how does the system …”) prevent it from occurring as a hypothetical other than by “past precedent”? Could they in fact just pass a Bill that started something like “Notwithstanding the Bill of Rights (1689), the Act of Settlement (1701)…”? And the technical answer to that is sure, Parliament could do that and make the Queen the absolute monarch of the UK. Just like the technical answer is that Congress and 3/4 of the states could repeal Articles I, II and III and make Donald Trump Emperor of America, with Ivanka as heir apparent. Both questions have as their premiss that the people of the UK and the US have given up on their centuries long fights for democracy and the rule of law. Neither one is likely or constructive, in trying to deal with the current issues facing both countries, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/118 "2019-09-08T22:08:09Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > And the technical answer to that is sure, Parliament could do that and make the Queen the absolute monarch of the UK. > > Just like the technical answer is that Congress and 3/4 of the states could repeal Articles I, II and III and make Donald Trump Emperor of America, with Ivanka as heir apparent. > > Both questions have as their premiss that the people of the UK and the US have given up on their centuries long fights for democracy and the rule of law. > > Neither one is likely or constructive, in trying to deal with the current issues facing both countries, in my opinion. Getting closer. The answer given regarding what has to happen in the US. is far short of how far we have already seen we can be threatened by autocracy with less than those measures, but it does at least describe some of the detail of what at least officially would have to happen. At least in theory our existential nature as a representational democracy with balance of powers is protected from the whims of a simple majority of the voters or of representatives. “Parliament could do that”? On a simple majority vote just Parliament voting alone could do _that_? Really? I guess it shouldn’t surprise when an action which is being described as “the equivalent to the US revoking the Declaration of Independence” is being possibly being done based on a narrow majority vote of a broad concept idea without any details. I would have expected that actions which change the existential character and principles of a country would require more than a simple majority of votes of either voters of of representatives. My ignorance reduced. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/119 "2019-09-10T05:06:28Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > “Parliament could do that”? On a simple majority vote just Parliament voting alone could do _that_? Really? Parliamentary majority, plus referendum majority plus judicial review. This isn’t being done as a fit of whimsy. It may very well be doing a dammed silly thing in a dammed silly way but we aren’t talking Pride’s Purge here. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/120 "2019-09-10T05:12:47Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > Parliamentary majority, plus referendum majority plus judicial review. > This isn’t being done as a fit of whimsy. > > It may very well be doing a dammed silly thing in a dammed silly way but we aren’t talking Pride’s Purge here. “That” in DSeid’s post isn’t Brexit; it’s a hypothetical Act to supersede the Bill of Rights and the Act of Settlement and make the queen an absolute monarch in the UK. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350.md?page=7)