# Boris Johnson asks the Queen to suspend Parliament. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 28, 2019, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350 "2019-08-28T10:51:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/141 "2019-09-11T17:54:46Z")
Side note - our gov’t didn’t just suspend Parliament in Canada, but dissolved it today. Apparently it takes a lot of hot water. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/142 "2019-09-11T18:18:41Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > I swear to God this thing is going to lead to the break up of the UK and England and Wales will be surrounded by EU countries - North, South, East and West - that they have customs barriers with. It’s going to be a mess. > > At this point, I wouldn’t even be surprised if Northern Ireland ends up back in some sort of oddball union with the Republic of Ireland. > > Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised at this point if England secedes from Planet Earth. Everything but your last sentence seems plausible. I’ll bet the voting in the Scottish independence referendum would go differently today. Speaking as an outsider observing the whole thing, Brexit is clearly a mess. (Why would you do something that seems guaranteed to tank the economy?) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/143 "2019-09-11T18:30:45Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > … (Why would you do something that seems guaranteed to tank the economy?) There are some people that were convinced electing President Trump was “guaranteed to tank the economy” too. I think, thus far at least, they’ve been shown to be clearly wrong. Perhaps they are wrong about Brexit too. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/144 "2019-09-11T18:36:06Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > There are some people that were convinced electing President Trump was “guaranteed to tank the economy” too. I think, thus far at least, they’ve been shown to be clearly wrong. Perhaps they are wrong about Brexit too. How can you be so silly? Severing a massive trade agreement with your biggest market has direct financial implications. It’s not remotely like Trump getting elected and worrying he’ll be bad. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/145 "2019-09-11T18:43:05Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > There are some people that were convinced electing President Trump was “guaranteed to tank the economy” too. I think, thus far at least, they’ve been shown to be clearly wrong. Perhaps they are wrong about Brexit too. Maybe so, though I think that those are two extremely different situations. In the case of Trump, what I remember is that the fear was that his impulsiveness and unpredictability would hurt the economy. You’re right, that hasn’t happened so far, though there are signs pointing to a possible slowdown (if not recession), in part because of the uncertainty he’s driving on trade, particularly with China. With Brexit, particularly if it’s a no-deal Brexit, most economists (hardline Brexiteers aside) do seem to feel that it’ll harm the British economy – the debate is around how hard, and for how long. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/146 "2019-09-11T18:55:15Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Maybe so, though I think that those are two extremely different situations. > > In the case of Trump, what I remember is that the fear was that his impulsiveness and unpredictability would hurt the economy. You’re right, that hasn’t happened so far, though there are signs pointing to a possible slowdown (if not recession), in part because of the uncertainty he’s driving on trade, particularly with China. > > With Brexit, particularly if it’s a no-deal Brexit, most economists (hardline Brexiteers aside) do seem to feel that it’ll harm the British economy – the debate is around how hard, and for how long. I probably wouldn’t quibble with the statement “most economists (hardline Brexiteers aside) do seem to feel that it’ll harm the British economy”. The statement I did quibble with (“seems guaranteed to tank the economy”) is obviously a good bit more extremist / alarmist / hyperbolic than yours was. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/147 "2019-09-11T19:08:01Z")
Here’s one example of how it seems guaranteed to tank the economy. As a result of Brexit, London is no longer going to be the center of Eurozone banking, so thousands of very highly compensated bankers are moving to other cities in other countries. Surely that’s not a good thing? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/148 "2019-09-11T19:22:23Z")
I can concede “not a good thing” (at least for London) without conceding “seems guaranteed to tank the economy”, can’t I? You get that there’s a big swath of middle ground between those two outcomes, right? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/149 "2019-09-11T19:23:51Z")
I give up. You win. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/150 "2019-09-11T19:43:34Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > There are some people that were convinced electing President Trump was “guaranteed to tank the economy” too. I think, thus far at least, they’ve been shown to be clearly wrong. Perhaps they are wrong about Brexit too. I think the jury is still out on Trump; the effects of his economic policy may not be felt for a year or two yet. But Brexit has _already_ tanked the UK economy. The pound has lost something like 30% of its value since the referendum. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/151 "2019-09-11T21:14:43Z")
Is there any chance this message board can have a discussion of UK government such as “Boris Johnson asks the Queen to suspend Parliament” without the argument descending into a rehash of Brexit? The last nine posts were completely off topic; a few contained argumentative ideas presented as facts but without providing cites to back up their premise, and none discussed current events or UK constitutional issues. My opinion is that there’s a very interesting discussion to be had on the subject of the OP. “Is the prorogation itself “the biggest constitutional crisis since the Abdication”?” is a great question related to the OP. The effect of “Russian bot farms” on the 2016 referendum isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/152 "2019-09-11T21:27:28Z")
I apologize and ask Mods to delete my post if it is off-topic, by **Mr. Finn** _did_ pose a question. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > (Why would you do something that seems guaranteed to tank the economy?) The bulk of Brits will suffer if/when the economy falters but average Brits may have voted with poor information. The Brexit was/is sponsored by rich individuals and corporations. _These rich may actually prosper under a faltering economy!_ They already have large dollar-based assets; can buy up English property on the cheap; while their English businesses, freed of EU regulation and competition, make increased profit. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/153 "2019-09-11T21:52:45Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Getting closer. The answer given regarding what has to happen in the US. is far short of how far we have already seen we can be threatened by autocracy with less than those measures, but it does at least describe some of the detail of what at least officially would have to happen. At least in theory our existential nature as a representational democracy with balance of powers is protected from the whims of a simple majority of the voters or of representatives. > > “Parliament could do that”? On a simple majority vote just Parliament voting alone could do _that_? Really? > > I guess it shouldn’t surprise when an action which is being described as “the equivalent to the US revoking the Declaration of Independence” is being possibly being done based on a narrow majority vote of a broad concept idea without any details. > > I would have expected that actions which change the existential character and principles of a country would require more than a simple majority of votes of either voters of of representatives. My ignorance reduced. You’re probably right. A lot is said about the UK’s unwritten constitution and how it is based on history, tradition, and precedence, rather than explicitly defined duties and limitations of government. There’s an underlying belief that, even though Parliament is sovereign, Parliament will seek to do the will of the people, and Parliament is sovereign to Government. Johnson seems to be engineering a conflict of people versus Parliament, and imputing that the Government is on the people’s side. > **[Boris Johnson’s intention is clear: he wants a ‘people v parliament’ election...](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/28/boris-johnson-election-prorogue-parliament-populist-majority)** > > The prime minister’s plan to prorogue parliament is a nakedly populist move, says Tom Kibasi, director of the Institute for Public Policy Research That’s definitely a step towards sidelining Parliament and towards a populist strongman led government. A political system that relies on established procedures, when faced with an executive determined not to follow those procedures, certainly has a problem when those procedures are unwritten. The good news is it isn’t working. Johnson’s mild rebellion against the established procedures has faced widespread condemnation, rejection within his own party, and judicial, parliamentary, and party review. The only thing saving Johnson from a vote of no confidence is lack of agreement from the opposition parties on how to go forwards afterwards. The UK political system may be vulnerable to a popular strongman like Putin who’s able to command his country based on strong popular backing. Is there any political system that isn’t? Johnson however is not that strongman. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/154 "2019-09-12T02:20:51Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I can concede “not a good thing” (at least for London) without conceding “seems guaranteed to tank the economy”, can’t I? You get that there’s a big swath of middle ground between those two outcomes, right? > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I give up. You win. I concede no such thing. Brexit _will_ throw Britain into a depression. There’s no way it won’t. The economy is too integrated now not to contract on Leaving. It will also hit Europe hard and indeed the world. Remember how some dubious mortgages wrecked the world economy in 2008? _This is bigger._ edit to add: > [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > Is there any chance this message board can have a discussion of UK government such as “Boris Johnson asks the Queen to suspend Parliament” without the argument descending into a rehash of Brexit? The last nine posts were completely off topic; a few contained argumentative ideas presented as facts but without providing cites to back up their premise, and none discussed current events or UK constitutional issues. > > My opinion is that there’s a very interesting discussion to be had on the subject of the OP. “Is the prorogation itself “the biggest constitutional crisis since the Abdication”?” is a great question related to the OP. The effect of “Russian bot farms” on the 2016 referendum isn’t. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/155 "2019-09-12T04:41:27Z")
[Sidebar on]I haven’t posted in this thread much, if at all, but I do check it regularly. This was the first post I saw on checking this evening: > [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > Is there any chance this message board can have a discussion of UK government such as “Boris Johnson asks the Queen to suspend Parliament” without the argument descending into a rehash of Brexit? The last nine posts were completely off topic; a few contained argumentative ideas presented as facts but without providing cites to back up their premise, and none discussed current events or UK constitutional issues… All I had to do was read this far and I already knew which poster was _guaranteed_ to be multi-posting when I went back and looked at the posts in question. I wasn’t disappointed.[/Sidebar off] ---
**Author:** ![kirkrapine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7ea924/32.png) [@kirkrapine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kirkrapine)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/156 "2019-09-12T05:07:28Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > Is there any chance this message board can have a discussion of UK government such as “Boris Johnson asks the Queen to suspend Parliament” without the argument descending into a rehash of Brexit? I don’t think it is logically or reasonably possible to leave Brexit out of such a discussion. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/157 "2019-09-12T06:08:05Z")
> [@kirkrapine](#): > > I don’t think it is logically or reasonably possible to leave Brexit out of such a discussion. Indeed- since the whole controversy about the suspension is whether its timing and its length are aspect of a plan to enable Johnson to deliver Brexit with minimal parliamentary supervision or constraint. Which in turn opens up the question of why it would be needful or desirable to deliver Brexit in that way. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/158 "2019-09-12T09:11:39Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Is the prorogation itself “the biggest constitutional crisis since the Abdication”? Or are you referring to more broadly to Brexit with this phrase? A bit late now, but I was indeed referring to the prorogation appeals. People have a range of opinions about the merits of Brexit vs Remain, the legitimacy of the referendum, and even on the many different types of possible Brexit available once the decision to leave the EU has been taken. There are also a range of opinions available on how to even measure whether a particular option is the best for the UK or not. These are big and divisive issues in their own right. But in pursuit of their vision of Brexit, the government have taken matters to a new level. By proroguing Parliament for five weeks, the government made a fairly transparent attempt to exempt itself from oversight. It claimed it was doing no such thing. The process they followed meant involving a supposedly non-political Head of State in a conflict between Government and Parliament. The courts of the different constituent nations of the UK have been brought in to rule on this. The Scottish court has explicitly said that as a matter of fact the government was trying to evade Parliamentary scrutiny and oversight, in effect saying they have been lying to the courts, the people and the Head of State. The government has responded by suggesting, then retracting, then re-asserting in the most weaselly way imaginable\* that the courts are acting out of political bias. Because the Scottish courts are in disagreement with the English courts, the Supreme Court ruling risks being interpreted as either dismissive of Scottish law or of privileging a smaller member of the Union over the largest partner, either of which will be seized on by hotheads. In any event, the Supreme Court now has to address an open question about the limits of executive power. All of this in the context of Brexit, which by involving the representative democracy of Parliament in implementing a decision reached by the direct democracy of a referendum has already raised some emotive questions about how the country should be run, which emotion the government is not shy, and indeed is positively enthusiastic, about harnessing against anyone who stands in their way. \*A minister on national TV using the Trumpian formula of “I’m not saying this, but many people are saying that the courts are biased and politicised.” Without going on to explain why those “many” people were wrong. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/159 "2019-09-25T17:16:26Z")
Supreme Court: Boris Johnson’s decision to suspend Parliament was unlawful https://ssl.bbc.co.uk/wwscripts/embed_player#playlist=/news/av/uk-politics-49810180/supreme-court-boris-johnson-s-decision-to-suspend-parliament-was-unlawfulA&poster=https://c.files.bbci.co.uk/A2BE/production/_108926614_p07p5592.jpg&ad_site=/news/politics&ad_keyword=&source=twitter Brian ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350/160 "2019-09-27T00:31:02Z")
Well, it’s nice to see the Scottish position supported, if I understand that correctly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boris-johnson-asks-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament/839350.md?page=7)