# "Born In The U.S.A." **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 12, 2001, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-in-the-u-s-a/81119 "2001-09-12T18:21:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Swede\_Hollow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Swede\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swede_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-in-the-u-s-a/81119/21 "2001-09-13T01:43:19Z")
I’ve always thought Bruce Springsteen was hard to understand. Since most people can’t make out what he was singing they jumped to conclusions based on they parts that they could understand. (The same could explain Manfred Mann singing Bruce’s “Revved up like a deuce, another roller in the night” as “Rolled up like a douche, another runner in the night” from _Blinded by the Light_.) John Lennon’s “in” reply from Revolution is only heard in the slow version on the white album, not the fast version that usually gets played on the radio. ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-in-the-u-s-a/81119/22 "2001-09-13T10:51:43Z")
Bloody hell. It never even crossed my mind that anyone could interpret “Born in the USA” as anything _but_ a wickedly maudlin anti-war diatribe. For god’s sake! This: > [@](#): > > I had a brother at Khe Sahn > Fighting off the Viet Cong > They’re still there, he’s all gone > > He had a woman he loved in Saigon > I got a picture of him in her arms now still gives me a shiver every time I hear it. And don’t get me started on adverts twisting the meaning of songs. OR “Every breath you take”! It’s about a stalker, you morons! pan ---
**Author:** ![bagkitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ab992/32.png) [@bagkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bagkitty)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-in-the-u-s-a/81119/23 "2001-09-13T11:19:25Z")
I remember a somewhat tipsy monologue Billy Bragg gave at one of his concerts when the album (Born In The U.S.A., not one of Billy’s) was high on the charts… Billy was wondering about the cover art… musing that he couldn’t see Bruce’s hands and that, with his hips cocked at just that angle, it kinda looked like he was taking a pee… Of course this is probably not a suitable observation for Great Debates, but it was kinda funny at the time. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-in-the-u-s-a/81119/24 "2001-09-13T11:43:51Z")
“Every Breath You Take” is not about a guy fawning over his loved one…it’s about a stalker…“I’ll be watching you.” Listen to it again…“Oh, can’t you see, you _belong_ to me.” Keep the stalker thought in mind, and you’ll get it. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-in-the-u-s-a/81119/25 "2001-09-13T11:44:12Z")
The Beatles recorded the song “Revolution” twice. The first version appears on the White Album and is called “Revolution 1” (so as to differentiate from “Revolution 9” on Disc 2). As has been mentioned, the line “. . . don’t you know that you can count me out (in)” was meant to express Lennon’s ambivalence at the time (he spent a while trying to decide which word to use, eventually deciding on both). When the Beatles were deciding which tracks to issue as singles, Lennon suggested “Revolution 1.” The others opposed it on the grounds that it was too slow (though it’s widely speculated that it was really because the song was too overtly political). Lennon, therefore, organized a faster version, the result of which was “Revolution,” which appeared as the B-Side to . . . I forget. “Hey Jude,” I think, but I wouldn’t swear to it. Anyway, by that time Lennon had made up his mind and the “(in)” had disappeared from the lyric. > [@](#): > > Another song commonly misunderstood - Revolution by John Lennon. It was a big protest song, but Lennon is in fact protesting against violent uprising and changing the system. The song is misunderstood, but not the way you mention, I believe. The Nike commercial not withstanding, I’ve never known anyone to interpret the song as a call for revolution; the lyrics seem clear enough and there’s no vague chorus to confuse people (a la “Born in the U.S.A.”). What’s very subtle about the song is the line, “And if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao / You ain’t gonna make it with anyone anyhow.” Not a dig at Maoists, the line is actually telling people not to blow the revolution by scaring the “straights” with pictures of Mao, etc. He’s not bashing revolutionaries, just saying they’ve got to be more subtle. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-in-the-u-s-a/81119/26 "2001-09-13T11:44:53Z")
apologies to kabbes…just noticed you already posted the answer to that question. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-in-the-u-s-a/81119/27 "2001-09-13T12:35:54Z")
The woman who sits near me at work has her radio constantly tuned to an oldies station. I swear I’ve been hear the same damn Billy Joel and Allman Brothers old Top 40 songs every damn day. Today was different. She pointed out to me how they’re playing “patriotic” songs. Like what? “Born in the USA,” of course. I reminded her of what should be obvious, it’s a protest song about what’s wrong with the USA. She goes, “Well I guess they’re just noticing the title and the chorus.” I suggested they play a song to stir the heart of any patriotic Christian Republican: Bob Dylan’s “With God On Our Side.” That would be perfect! I could not stifle the bitter laughter. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-in-the-u-s-a/81119/28 "2001-09-13T13:21:24Z")
One person fooled by “Born in the U.S.A.” was George F. Will, who, sometime back around 1984, give or take, turned a column into a paean to the song - clearly without having listened closely to the words. I think it was about then that my opinion of Will started to drop. Another misinterpreted song: “Like a Rock” by Bob Seger, used as the ongoing commercial theme song for one brand of pickup truck. The song’s clearly about Seger finding that he _wasn’t_ ‘like a rock’. Wonder what that says about the (Chevy?) pickup trucks. Getting back to Springsteen, Bruce did a fine cover of Edwin Starr’s “War” (“What is it _good_ for? Absolutely _no_thing!”). It got good radio play for years, right up to the fall of 1990 - right as we were building up to Desert Storm - when it disappeared from the airwaves. Funny, that. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-in-the-u-s-a/81119/29 "2001-09-13T13:26:01Z")
Didn’t the navy try using the Village People’s “In the Navy” in their recruitment ads for a while? Until they realised what it was about? Sure I remember this. pan ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-in-the-u-s-a/81119/30 "2001-09-13T13:41:41Z")
Having been born outside the United States, I have always hated the “Born in the U.S.A.” song. To me it says that only those born in America are, or even can be, patriots. Since that’s obviously not true (I served in the US military for 20 years active duty and one reserve), I would prefer that I never hear that freaking song again. A better choice would be the one that has the refrain, “I would gladly stand up to defend her…” Y’all recall that one? An even better choice, given a lot of the anti-immigrant backlash over this tragedy, would be “America, the Beautiful.” Lot of people here need to practice the words of that song: “Crown thy good with brotherhood from sea to shining sea.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Red\_Menace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/82dd89/32.png) [@The\_Red\_Menace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Red_Menace)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-in-the-u-s-a/81119/31 "2001-09-13T13:48:22Z")
As far as “Every Breath You Take” goes, I’ve always felt that though the words may seem to superficially lead to stalker imagery, it was more just a tribute to someone Sting still loved who had left him. The words, taken in a less literal context, would seem to suggest that to me. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-in-the-u-s-a/81119/32 "2001-09-13T13:48:25Z")
More suggestions… “Wonderful Tonight” by Eric Clapton. “Will you still love me tomorrow” by Carol King / The Ronnettes “In the Navy” a recruitment song? Nah, they only sing that when leaving port 😉 ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-in-the-u-s-a/81119/33 "2001-09-13T13:53:03Z")
Sting wrote the song, not for somone who had just left him, but for someone who he had just gone through an extremely messy and hurtful divorce, so the words have as much venom as you could take literally. But its not about stalking. Just that no matter what she does, he will be there to remind her that he can survive without her, albeit that he still wishes that they had never had to split. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-in-the-u-s-a/81119/34 "2001-09-13T13:53:44Z")
Didn’t Reagan also want to use John Mellancamp’s _Little Pink Houses_? And Mellancamp refused? [http://radio.cbc.ca/programs/thismorning/sites/politics/electionmusic\_001025.html](http://radio.cbc.ca/programs/thismorning/sites/politics/electionmusic_001025.html) Hehe. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-in-the-u-s-a/81119/35 "2001-09-13T14:26:37Z")
Just out of curiosity, what is frequently misunderstood about “Wonderful Tonight?” I always thought that one was pretty straightforward, and as I review the lyrics in my head right now, I can’t see anything confusing. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-in-the-u-s-a/81119/36 "2001-09-13T14:36:27Z")
**RickJay** True true, what you say about “Born in the USA.” I suggest, though that you get/borrow a copy of Bruce’s latest live album (from his recent tour) and listen to the song off of that album. It is a very different song (not better or worse necessarily, just different). Definitely worth listening to. The intense irony is still there; the lyric “I was born in the USA”, becomes almost tragic. And I’ll tell ya, the irony that drips off of this song like thick syrup doesn’t hold a candle to “rain on your wedding day.” It’s a wonder that songwriters back in the eighties couldn’t write meaningful, intelligable lyrics :rolleyes: **Swede Hollow** , That song makes the least sense of almost any song I know, baring “Louie, Louie.” Although, the lyrics are printed in the album cover, so Manfred Mann had no excuse. Then again, his words make just as much sense as Bruce’s. **Guinastasia** , Yeah, I do remember reading that somewhere too. Did he and his entire staff just not have a clue? These people did have college educations, no? I can just hear it now… Staffer: Mr. President, I think you should listen to this song. The people are complaining that their government has let them down and is not giving them all they deserve. They feel homoginized, disenfranchised, and downtrodden! Regan: _listens to the song_ [marie antoinette]Let them live in Pink Houses![/marie antoinette] Sheesh! ---
**Author:** ![jmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dbc845/32.png) [@jmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmonster)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-in-the-u-s-a/81119/37 "2001-09-13T14:46:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > Having been born outside the United States, I have always hated the “Born in the U.S.A.” song. To me it says that only those born in America are, or even can be, patriots. Since that’s obviously not true (I served in the US military for 20 years active duty and one reserve), I would prefer that I never hear that freaking song again. A better choice would be the one that has the refrain, “I would gladly stand up to defend her…” Y’all recall that one? That’s ridiculous. The point is that he was born here (i.e., he’s one of us) and ever since he came back from the war that America sent him to fight, his people have completely abandoned him. He’s not saying he’s better than the maybe 500 people ever who were born outside the US and are in the military; he’s saying he deserves to at least be treated like a regular American. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-in-the-u-s-a/81119/38 "2001-09-13T14:55:47Z")
Maybe so, jm. But put yourself in the place of those of us who were not born in the U.S.A. and have gotten to listen for many years to “if you weren’t born here…” Think on that for a few, please. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-in-the-u-s-a/81119/39 "2001-09-13T15:25:44Z")
**Monty** I understand your complaint, but I don’t quite see how it applies to this song. It’s not about treating people born in the US better than those who are not. It’s about someone who served this country and then was abused and abandoned by it. I guess I can see how it might grate on the ears of those who are Americans but were not born here. I guess I’d just say that it certainly doesn’t seem like there’s any malicious intent behind the lyric. It fits much better in the song than “Citizen of the USA,” IMO. Also, the writer of the song is writing in the 1st person, and while the song is in no way biographical, Bruce _was_ born in the USA. I would just question whether or not there’s really anything negative being said about non-native US citizens (whatever that means). ---
**Author:** ![Sea\_Sorbust](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Sea\_Sorbust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sea_Sorbust)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-in-the-u-s-a/81119/40 "2001-09-13T15:28:07Z")
**XicanoreX** asked: > [@](#): > > “2) Is this one of the most misunderstood song in the US pop history.” I think that _the_ most misunderstood song in history may well be **Pink Floyd** ’s _Echoes_, from the **Meddle** album. This tune is little known (although I once heard the top rock station in Albuquerque, Neuvo Mexico, play the entire 20+ minutes [it’s even longer than **CCR** ’s _Grapevine_\*\*!\*\*] over a workday lunch hour) and likely seldom listened to by rush-rush-rush Americans. Nonetheless, I think that it is not only the most MISunderstood tune in history, but that it is not understood at all (–to include, by me). I also strongly suspect that the understanding of this particular tune might play a crucial role in understanding the WTC “bombings”. * * * Oh, yeah! Almost forgot: **Born in the U.S.A.?** Yes! Yes! Quick, hand me a flag to wave!! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-in-the-u-s-a/81119.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-in-the-u-s-a/81119.md?page=3)