# Born & Raised & Living in the USA: If you DESPISED the USA, How would you destroy it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 27, 2011, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-raised-living-in-the-usa-if-you-despised-the-usa-how-would-you-destroy-it/607491 "2011-12-27T04:19:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-raised-living-in-the-usa-if-you-despised-the-usa-how-would-you-destroy-it/607491/61 "2011-12-28T05:30:40Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > The Republican platform would cripple America far better than any army. > > No birth control, no abortion, turn medicare into a much more expensive voucher program, turn social security into a much less safe stock market program, greater tax cuts for the wealthy, increased taxes for the poor and middle class, states teaching evolution alongside full barrel creationism, reduced child labor laws, a fence keeping out low wage workers and increasing costs for consumers all across the board, more executions, more incarceration, more military intervention, making our for profit health care system more profitable… > > That’s only what I could think of in a single breath. The worst possible thing that could happen to America is for conservatives to win. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Well, first of all, the conservative platform you outlined\* was what generally existed in the US prior to about 1970, and we were doing just peachy. So, the idea that it would destroy the economy doesn’t really make much sense. Erroneous. In red are the things that actually reflect 1960’s USA; in blue the things that do not: No birth control, no abortion–pre-_Griswold_, check. turn medicare into a much more expensive voucher program, turn social security into a much less safe stock market program–nope. greater tax cuts for the wealthy, increased taxes for the poor and middle class–very much no. states teaching evolution alongside full barrel creationism–full barrel? I think Lobohan overstated this one. reduced child labor laws–nope. a fence keeping out low wage workers and increasing costs for consumers all across the board–nope. more executions–maybe some. more incarceration–nope. more military intervention–yeah, because that’s a part of the 1960’s we want back. :rolleyes: making our for profit health care system more profitable–nope. So that’s three or four of thirteen things that actually were part of this country pre-1970, and one of those was pretty bad, actually. And one thing that seems more extremist than the actual platform to me. Leaving eight or nine things that have nothing in the slightest to do with “the good old days,” and except for the medicare reforms would be the diametric opposite direction of “going back to the old days.” You’re just wrong. I thought, “Oh, it’ll be 50/50,” but nope, totally wrong. So unless all you saw was, “Death penalty and banned condoms! Yay!” you don’t even have a basis for your post. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-raised-living-in-the-usa-if-you-despised-the-usa-how-would-you-destroy-it/607491/62 "2011-12-28T05:57:51Z")
I believe the phrase you’re looking for is “full bore”, though I don’t actually know exactly what it means, except similar to “all out” or “balls to the wall”. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-raised-living-in-the-usa-if-you-despised-the-usa-how-would-you-destroy-it/607491/63 "2011-12-28T07:57:12Z")
I always imagined America became powerful through its mineral deposits and its use of new science. These are the two things that keep it rich and powerful. But I think the days of America being the top dog are numbered unless the political landscape changes. Minerals are becoming more mportant to the US, whilst science is taking a hit. The worlds going the order way. My opinion of course but the writing is already on the wall. Much like the end of many great civilisations and nations best years, it’s not that obvious yet. If it was, someone would do something. It doesn’t have to be a bad thing BTW, the health and happiness of citizens might well improve! With this in mind, some sort of stunt that undermines Americans belief in science would help tip the balance towards that change. NB: I’ve been up all night so I may well be talking nonsense… ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-raised-living-in-the-usa-if-you-despised-the-usa-how-would-you-destroy-it/607491/64 "2011-12-28T14:46:35Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I’d much rather see the country reformed more to my liking than destroyed. Waiting for your ideas on this. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-raised-living-in-the-usa-if-you-despised-the-usa-how-would-you-destroy-it/607491/65 "2011-12-28T16:21:31Z")
> [@Goosie](#): > > I’m not sure if this question or any similar question has been asked on the Straight Dope before. > > Was this a question that “shouldn’t” be asked on the Straight Dope, on a list of subjects that Cecil would consider “taboo”? (Is there such a list we can refer to?) > > Asking a question about flying saucers doesn’t make me an alien, nor asking questions about cannibalism make me a cannibal. > And asking the question I asked (on a message board somewhere on the internet) doesn’t mean that I’m someone calling for the violent demise of the USA. > (I’m not calling for the violent demise of the USA.) > > Shouldn’t we be free to ask sensitive and provocative questions and discuss them without fear of offending someone or fear of retaliation? > > I was only interested in seeing what Dopers views were on this subject. > I guess I could “un-ask” the question if I knew how. It’s pretty obvious he was accusing you of being an FBI false plant and not an actual insurrectionist. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-raised-living-in-the-usa-if-you-despised-the-usa-how-would-you-destroy-it/607491/66 "2011-12-29T14:37:39Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > Waiting for your ideas on this. Still waiting ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-raised-living-in-the-usa-if-you-despised-the-usa-how-would-you-destroy-it/607491/67 "2011-12-29T16:02:41Z")
Eh, come on. Plenty of us want America to change one way or another, and we don’t have a five year plan to do it. Just because Der has a near-legendary hatred for all things and people American (except of course himself) and champions a comic book fantasy worldview of geopolitics, that doesn’t mean he’s got any clue on how to change things, either. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-raised-living-in-the-usa-if-you-despised-the-usa-how-would-you-destroy-it/607491/68 "2011-12-29T22:21:17Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > Still waiting Come on, you’ve had all day. At least give us a couple of talking points. Or is “the man” repressing you? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-raised-living-in-the-usa-if-you-despised-the-usa-how-would-you-destroy-it/607491/69 "2011-12-29T22:43:41Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > Come on, you’ve had all day. At least give us a couple of talking points. Or is “the man” repressing you? No, the fact that I haven’t opened the thread for a day or so and the question is seriously off topic. Anyway, I’m thinking in terms of pretty basic left wing reforms (well, left wing by American standards); higher taxes on the rich, less attempts to solve problems by throwing people in prison, ending the “drug war”, single sex marriage legal nationwide, cracking down on corrupt or brutal police, more regulations on business to prevent public harm and economic disasters, single payer health care, increased secularism (ideally, religion going away entirely of course), etc. None of which I expect to see in my lifetime, only an increasing slide toward some kind of theocratic corporate fascism. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-raised-living-in-the-usa-if-you-despised-the-usa-how-would-you-destroy-it/607491/70 "2011-12-30T16:03:49Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No, the fact that I haven’t opened the thread for a day or so and the question is seriously off topic. Anyway, I’m thinking in terms of pretty basic left wing reforms (well, left wing by American standards); higher taxes on the rich, less attempts to solve problems by throwing people in prison, ending the “drug war”, single sex marriage legal nationwide, cracking down on corrupt or brutal police, more regulations on business to prevent public harm and economic disasters, single payer health care, increased secularism (ideally, religion going away entirely of course), etc. None of which I expect to see in my lifetime, only an increasing slide toward some kind of theocratic corporate fascism. Well, you can open another thread if you like: “Der Trihs’s Proposals for a Better America.” If you propose something positive once in a while instead of just throwing rocks it would be better for both you and the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-raised-living-in-the-usa-if-you-despised-the-usa-how-would-you-destroy-it/607491/71 "2011-12-30T18:22:28Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > And how the heck do you get a “wealthy minority”, when anything you can imagine can come out of a gismo? What exactly counts as wealth, then? Slaves? Yeah, I don’t think so. What exactly can your slaves provide you with? Especially since you can apparently get the gismo to produce slaves…man, that looks like a really stupid book. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-raised-living-in-the-usa-if-you-despised-the-usa-how-would-you-destroy-it/607491/72 "2011-12-30T20:40:19Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Especially since you can apparently get the gismo to produce slaves…man, that looks like a really stupid book. Looks bad. Stephenson’s [The Diamond Age](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diamond_Age) or Bank’s [Culture series](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_series) are much better introductions to the concept of a post-scarcity society. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-raised-living-in-the-usa-if-you-despised-the-usa-how-would-you-destroy-it/607491/73 "2011-12-30T20:58:17Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Oh, yeah, that’ll be a **wonderful** world!](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_for_Anything) :rolleyes: I’ll see your classic sci-fi novel and raise you [one outstanding comic book](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmetropolitan). There’s Nixon in it. Twice. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-raised-living-in-the-usa-if-you-despised-the-usa-how-would-you-destroy-it/607491/74 "2011-12-30T21:51:12Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > Well, you can open another thread if you like: “Der Trihs’s Proposals for a Better America.” If you propose something positive once in a while instead of just throwing rocks it would be better for both you and the SDMB. If we do this, can we make sure to link it to this thread? I’d like to be involved. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-raised-living-in-the-usa-if-you-despised-the-usa-how-would-you-destroy-it/607491/75 "2011-12-30T23:46:29Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > Well, you can open another thread if you like: “Der Trihs’s Proposals for a Better America.” :rolleyes: I only answered because you insisted. Repeatedly. Since you are the one who is so interested, why don’t you start a new thread? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2012, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-raised-living-in-the-usa-if-you-despised-the-usa-how-would-you-destroy-it/607491/76 "2012-01-01T01:59:52Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I believe the US and for that matter any world system is unjust and oppressive, and that the power to rule for ‘world powers’ comes from oppression. My plan is simple, have the Father defeat it spiritually: On the contrary, the US government along with all other governments has been ordained by God to maintain order and peace in this world. And America has been far more successful at it than anybody else. Anyways its quite simple to destroy America: just make Noam Chomsky President. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-raised-living-in-the-usa-if-you-despised-the-usa-how-would-you-destroy-it/607491/77 "2012-01-01T02:21:25Z")
Would you please stop posting? All you contribute is nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2012, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-raised-living-in-the-usa-if-you-despised-the-usa-how-would-you-destroy-it/607491/78 "2012-01-01T02:23:35Z")
Well, this thread seems to have reached its logical conclusion, by which I mean the conclusion of the logical part of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-raised-living-in-the-usa-if-you-despised-the-usa-how-would-you-destroy-it/607491/79 "2012-01-01T02:37:56Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > On the contrary, the US government along with all other governments has been ordained by God to maintain order and peace in this world. :rolleyes: “Ordained by God”. All the governments of the world. _Really._ ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2012, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-raised-living-in-the-usa-if-you-despised-the-usa-how-would-you-destroy-it/607491/80 "2012-01-01T02:41:26Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Anyways its quite simple to destroy America: just make Noam Chomsky President. Oh my word Curtis is trolling us! Poe’s Law failure! Curtis is a fake! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-raised-living-in-the-usa-if-you-despised-the-usa-how-would-you-destroy-it/607491.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-raised-living-in-the-usa-if-you-despised-the-usa-how-would-you-destroy-it/607491.md?page=5)