# "Born This Way" : Sympathy and Science for Pedophiles
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [February 10, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889 "2013-02-10T17:36:15Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/1 "2013-02-10T17:36:15Z")
Ran across this interesting article today and doesn’t look like it was discussed here when it came out: [It appears that pedophiles are born, not made](http://gawker.com/5941037/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-those-who--want-to-have-sex-with-children).
> [@](#):
>
> Imagine a world in which admitting your attraction to busty women or tall men led to alienation, jail time, or your murder. Older gay men can probably remember such an era, but nowadays most sexual appetites have been mainstreamed to the point of banality. Pedophiles, for obvious reasons, don’t enjoy the same kind of tolerance, and thus it seems as if they may be locked forever in a sexual prison from the moment they’re born.
>
> Dr. James Cantor is the Head of Research in the Sexual Behaviours Clinic at the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health, Canada’s largest mental health and teaching hospital. He’s also an associate professor of psychiatry at the University of Toronto’s school of medicine. He’s been working on better understanding pedophiles for about 12 years now using a variety of methods. In the Kurt Freund Phallometric Lab, Cantor and his colleagues can attach an instrument to sex offenders’ penises in order to gauge their responses to a variety of sexually charged images. The Freund lab, Cantor tells me during a phone call last week, is one of the few in the world that can measure increases in penis volume rather than just increases in circumference.
>
> Cantor’s work also focuses on running sex offenders through what he calls “a battery of neuropsychological exams,” and brain scans on top of that, thus providing one of science’s most well-rounded looks at how a pedophile is made. That there are a lot of unanswered questions in Cantor’s field of research can’t be overstated, but his initial findings are noteworthy.
>
> Cantor says his first indication that there was something different about pedophiles’ brains was that, compared to teleiophile offenders (sex offenders who victimized adults), pedophiles’ IQs were about 10 points lower on average. He also found that the age of a pedophile’s victim was directly proportional to the pedophile’s IQ—the younger the children, the lower the attacker’s intelligence. “That was our first clue that the brain was somehow involved,” says Cantor, adding that pedophiles also performed relatively poorly on memory tests.
>
> Other patterns soon emerged: Pedophiles tended to be shorter than teleiophiles, which Cantor says told him “whatever’s going on, it’s not just the brain; it seems to be that the whole body isn’t formed quite correctly.” Pedophiles were more likely to have failed grades in school. They were also more likely to have sustained head injuries before the age of 13. All of this helped lead Cantor to the suspicion that not only did pedophilia have to do with brain growth, it had to do with very early brain growth. After several years of amassing a catalogue of intriguing research, in 2008, Cantor published a paper about what he tells me was the last clue that made him almost certain pedophilia is a prenatal issue: non-right-handedness.
> …
> “There doesn’t seem to be a pedophilia center in the brain,” says Cantor. “Instead, there’s either not enough of this cabling, not the correct kind of cabling, or it’s wiring the wrong areas together, so instead of the brain evoking protective or parental instincts when these people see children, it’s instead evoking sexual instincts. There’s almost literally a crossed wiring.”
Like most people, I am disgusted by child sex abuse, but as the article points out, not all child sex abusers are pedophiles nor do all pedophiles abuse children. In fact, when I think about most of the cases of sex abuse I have heard about in my life, it seems far more common that children are molested in a situation where a primarily heterosexual man takes advantage of an opportunity to offend (and often the abuse is enabled by the child’s mother unfortunately - cases like where the mom knows the stepfather is molesting the kid but chooses to ignore it and so on, which I find as evil as actually molesting the child).
I seriously think it would be nice if society would allow pedophiles who don’t want to offend to easily undergo chemical/physical castration - not as a punishment, but just to allow them to function without being troubled by these impulses. If I were a pedophile in our current society, I would probably just end up killing myself because I would feel like nobody would understand or want to help.
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### Author:  [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/2 "2013-02-10T18:55:50Z")
In the modern age, it should come as no shock to anyone that we are all victims of our genetics and our environments, sometimes with disastrous consequences.
While I think that is a compelling reason rethink our penchant to hate and revile certain people, I think it’s also a compelling reason to evaluate the goals of our justice system, and what we do with people inside it.
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### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/3 "2013-02-10T19:10:55Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Imagine a world in which admitting your attraction to busty women or tall men led to alienation, jail time, or your murder.
Sorry. This is a false trail.
(The alienation and murder parts are possible if they publicize their desires, but murder is still rare.)
No one is imprisoned for admitting a desire to be involved with children sexually. It is probably a great tragedy for a person to be born to grow up with those desires, but to involve the law requires that one actively engage in the molestation of a child.
I am perfectly willing to feel sorry for such people, and I support finding medical and psychiatric ways to eliminate or reduce their impulses, but as long as they do not broadcast their desires they will not suffer alienation by other people, and as long as they do not act on those desires they are safe from the law (in the U.S.).
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### Author:  [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/4 "2013-02-10T19:19:20Z")
in his book Journey into Darkness retired FBI agent John Douglas writes there’s nothing wrong with having the desires of a pedophile _as long as you do not exploit children in any way_. He considers talking to or taking photos in public of children, using them and children’s toys to masturbate acceptable.
Child pornography or Internet sites is wrong and illegal.
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### Author:  [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/5 "2013-02-10T20:54:06Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#):
>
> I seriously think it would be nice if society would allow pedophiles who don’t want to offend to easily undergo chemical/physical castration - not as a punishment, but just to allow them to function without being troubled by these impulses. If I were a pedophile in our current society, I would probably just end up killing myself because I would feel like nobody would understand or want to help.
I agree. There was a thread a while back where someone admitted to being a hebephile (attracted to those who are just starting puberty, around 11-12). He said he never acted on it which I assume is true otherwise I guess he wouldn’t have posted it on a message board.
A lot of people supported him, and I hope he got competent counseling to help keep his urges in check so no one gets hurt. But he said he tried seeing a therapist for it once and the therapist tried to report him to the police.
There are groups that try to get pedophiles who want to keep their urges from becoming something they actually act on though.
[http://www.childmolestationprevention.org/pages/diagnosis.html](http://www.childmolestationprevention.org/pages/diagnosis.html)
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### Author:  [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2013, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/6 "2013-02-10T21:04:57Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#):
>
> . . . Child pornography or Internet sites is wrong and illegal.
And, of course, there is the debate over drawings of naked children, created without any actual person serving as a model. Someone just sketches a picture. Many people say this should be acceptable, but some consider it a bad thing.
Another possibility would be a “child-sized” mannequin as a sex toy. Adult sized sex toys are getting better, and, of course, the future of robotics will likely be the future of sex-robotics.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2013, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/7 "2013-02-11T01:03:58Z")
My sympathies like with those who can only get sexual gratification by killing their sexual partners. Our society needs to be more open minded about such things. After all, it’s a victimless crime, isn’t it?
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### Author:  [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2013, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/8 "2013-02-11T01:12:52Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#):
>
> I agree. There was a thread a while back where someone admitted to being a hebephile (attracted to those who are just starting puberty, around 11-12). He said he never acted on it which I assume is true otherwise I guess he wouldn’t have posted it on a message board.
>
> A lot of people supported him, and I hope he got competent counseling to help keep his urges in check so no one gets hurt. But he said he tried seeing a therapist for it once and the therapist tried to report him to the police.
>
> There are groups that try to get pedophiles who want to keep their urges from becoming something they actually act on though.
>
> [http://www.childmolestationprevention.org/pages/diagnosis.html](http://www.childmolestationprevention.org/pages/diagnosis.html)
I think it was this thread? [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=551235&highlight=monster](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=551235&highlight=monster)
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2013, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/9 "2013-02-11T01:34:22Z")
Whatever protects children. If a more “welcoming” environment, by reducing the stigma for coming out as attracted to children and seeking help, would reduce abuse of children, then I’m all for it. I don’t know if this is the case, but I do think it’s likely that there are people who are sexually attracted to children who never act on it. For borderline cases who might or might not act on their desires, I’d be for anything that might get them help to prevent the victimization of children.
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### Author:  [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2013, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/10 "2013-02-11T01:42:57Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> Whatever protects children. If a more “welcoming” environment, by reducing the stigma for coming out as attracted to children and seeking help, would reduce abuse of children, then I’m all for it. I don’t know if this is the case, but I do think it’s likely that there are people who are sexually attracted to children who never act on it. For borderline cases who might or might not act on their desires, I’d be for anything that might get them help to prevent the victimization of children.
There must be some who don’t act because they fear the consequences; reducing stigma frees them _to_ act. And at the same time there is actual abuse that goes unreported, at least for a time; I don’t see how society shifting to view the perpetrators as less loathsome would protect those kids.
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2013, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/11 "2013-02-11T01:53:18Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#):
>
> There must be some who don’t act because they fear the consequences; reducing stigma frees them _to_ act. And at the same time there is actual abuse that goes unreported, at least for a time; I don’t see how society shifting to view the perpetrators as less loathsome would protect those kids.
You might be right. But if we can focus the stigma on the action but not the desire- treat the desire as a terrible illness- then perhaps it might prevent a few of them from turning into monsters. But I don’t know. I could be totally off here.
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### Author:  [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2013, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/12 "2013-02-11T02:59:32Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#):
>
> I think it was this thread? [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=551235&highlight=monster](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=551235&highlight=monster)
Damn there is a lot of banned posters in that thread. :eek:
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### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2013, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/13 "2013-02-11T04:20:51Z")
Is there any evidence that anyone is a ‘born’ pedophile?
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### Author:  [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2013, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/14 "2013-02-13T09:55:05Z")
> [@TriPolar](#):
>
> Is there any evidence that anyone is a ‘born’ pedophile?
Yes, I still think that the overwhelming majority of them may either be literally brain damaged or be mistaking OCD thoughts for “love”/attraction.
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### Author:  [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2013, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/15 "2013-02-13T09:56:31Z")
and wait…I thought that pure pedophiles were really rare…like I thought most of them had a lot of other mental illness stuff going on there too.
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2013, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/16 "2013-02-13T10:23:26Z")
> [@TriPolar](#):
>
> Is there any evidence that anyone is a ‘born’ pedophile?
You mean, other than all the stuff listed in the OP?
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### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2013, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/17 "2013-02-13T10:52:14Z")
> [@Miller](#):
>
> You mean, other than all the stuff listed in the OP?
The OP contains some words from a researcher who makes a leap from some evidence of conditions found later in life to a pre-natal condition. Based on the information provided there I would have to assume that pedophiles are stupid left-handed people. I see no mention of a genetic basis for pedophilia, or even that his conclusion of ‘crossed wiring’ is a pre-natal condition.
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### Author:  [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2013, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/18 "2013-02-13T11:07:45Z")
> [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#):
>
> Yes, I still think that the overwhelming majority of them may either be literally brain damaged or be mistaking OCD thoughts for “love”/attraction.
I’m not sure I’d go that far.
Men are attracted to signs of youth. For most cultures around the world, for most of human history, it was not just accepted, it was practically plan A for a man of any age to marry a teenage girl/woman.
So if you find girls of 14 or 15, say, attractive, I’d say that’s fairly normal for a guy, not a sign of brain damage.
That’s of course not to claim that it is morally OK to act upon such desires; a lot of things accepted in the past we now see as morally repugnant.
(Also, it’s largely irrelevant, but FTR I’m not very attracted to teens myself…in my case my taste in women has aged with me)
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### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/19 "2013-02-13T17:03:02Z")
> [@TriPolar](#):
>
> I see no mention of a genetic basis for pedophilia, or even that his conclusion of ‘crossed wiring’ is a pre-natal condition.
Nothing in the link indicates a claim for genetics. Neo-natal can suggest a lot of things. There could be trauma during pregnancy resulting from either direct insult or chemicals ingested by the mother or it could be simply a development misfire that is frequent enough to show up in the population but not sufficiently fatal to eliminate it from the population.
While we have identified connections between genetics and cleft palate, for example, we do not have a one-to-one genetic explanation and a number of cases of cleft palate have not yet had any genetic connection identified. Given the years that have been invested in studying cleft palate vs the brief period that the same sort of examination has been conducted on pedophilia, it is hardly surprising that we do not yet have a direct genetic connection.
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### Author:  [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2013, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/20 "2013-02-13T17:24:10Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#):
>
> There must be some who don’t act because they fear the consequences; reducing stigma frees them _to_ act. And at the same time there is actual abuse that goes unreported, at least for a time; I don’t see how society shifting to view the **perpetrators** as less loathsome would protect those kids.
(Bolding added by me.)
Perpetrators, yes, but what about people with urges but don’t act on them? Would we be best served if society was open enough that these people could get help?
I have a friend who is addicted to (adult) porn, which was putting a strain on his marriage, among other things. He was able to come forward with his addiction and got support from his friends and family, which now makes it easier for him to avoid porn. Perhaps we’d get lower incidences of child molestation if people could get the same kind of support.
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