# "Born This Way" : Sympathy and Science for Pedophiles
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [February 10, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889 "2013-02-10T17:36:15Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/61 "2013-02-22T16:34:31Z")
> [@LSilas](#):
>
> As I read some of these comment my stomach turned. Having been a victim I can tell you that it really doesn’t matter to me what the article or any study says. just as I don’t buy into the addiction being a genetic trait. Its a choice simply and plainly put.
With all due sympathy for your sufferings as a victim of child abuse, I think you’re missing the point.
Yes, committing child abuse is a choice, and you are right that those who choose to do so should be punished and prevented from doing further harm to children. But as far as all existing research and evidence shows, _ **being sexually ATTRACTED to children is NOT a choice** _, and that’s why it needs to be studied and understood.
> [@LSilas](#):
>
> I don’t date red heads or anyone more than 5 yrs older than myself. Thats a preference. Wanting to have sex with a child is thats just pure evil.
The point is not whether or not it’s evil; the point is that it is not a _ **CHOICE** _. (The “wanting” part, that is; certainly, as I noted, the actual act of molesting a child _is_ a choice.)
For instance, I personally have no desire whatever to have sex with a child, but that’s not a choice on my part, and I don’t deserve any credit for it. Children simply don’t seem like sex objects to me: they are little blobs of perpetual motion with occasional screams and occasional hugs, and while they may be sweet or cute or impressive or adorable, they just
are not sexy. I didn’t choose to feel that way: that’s just how I naturally feel.
If another person feels that children **are** sexy and gets sexually aroused at the prospect of having contact with them, that is a terrible and dangerous thing, but it is absurd to claim that that person _ **chose** _ to feel that way. You can choose your actions, but not your attractions.
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### Author:  [@PBear42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PBear42)
#### Post date: [February 23, 2013, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/62 "2013-02-23T06:41:39Z")
Agreed. Stated a little differently, ISTM this is a very interesting and pragmatic free will vs. determinism debate. Isn’t that really the key issue?
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### Author:  [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet)
#### Post date: [February 23, 2013, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/63 "2013-02-23T07:35:46Z")
> [@](#):
>
> but it is absurd to claim that that person chose to feel that way. You can choose your actions, but not your attractions.
Yes, but is it real attraction vs. some very screwed up distorted thinking masquading as attraction?
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### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [February 23, 2013, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/64 "2013-02-23T17:42:36Z")
> [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#):
>
> Yes, but is it real attraction vs. some very screwed up distorted thinking masquading as attraction?
That’s certainly a very important question to study, but AFAICT it doesn’t really make a difference as far as the issue of _choice_ is concerned.
You choose your actions, but not your attractions _or_ your very screwed up distorted thinkings.
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### Author:  [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)
#### Post date: [February 23, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/65 "2013-02-23T17:46:06Z")
> [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#):
>
> Yes, but is it real attraction vs. some very screwed up distorted thinking masquading as attraction?
I don’t understand the question.
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### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [February 23, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/66 "2013-02-23T17:52:14Z")
I can’t speak for **AboutAsWeird** , but I interpreted the question as meaning that pedophilic attraction might not really be on the spectrum of naturally occurring human sexual desires, but instead might be just some kind of pathology induced by trauma or mental illness or whatever.
Which is indeed an important question, because if pedophilic attraction is some kind of acquired pathological impulse then it can potentially be cured, at least in some cases. Whereas if it’s just a naturally occurring variant of the sexual hardwiring of the human brain in some unlucky minority of humans, then ISTM that while its effects can be controlled, it probably can’t be actually cured or extirpated from the sufferer’s psyche.
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### Author:  [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)
#### Post date: [February 23, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/67 "2013-02-23T18:06:31Z")
> [@huck](#):
>
> What I’m getting at is that sexual crimes against children cannot all be explained by some people (women as well as men) simply being naturally attracted to kids. I agree that there are such people and that trying to understand and treat them makes a lot of sense, but we’re a long way from knowing how or even whom to treat to try to prevent these crimes.
>
> And they are–and of course should be–crimes, very unlike having same-sex partners.
Great post. I don’t intend to dwell much on this thread except to support this line of thinking. We would grant that a male rapist, for example, is attracted to women, and we know that’s kind of beside the point - the difference between that guy and a bunch of other guys is that guy requires someone else to be victimized in order to be gratified, and there’s the problem.
So there might be some value in studying pedophilia for a better understanding of the type, but a lot of us who were casualties probably suspect this is going to involve some degree of opportunistic bullshit even if inadvertent, because we believe that the victimization, not sexualization, is what drives assaults on children.
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### Author:  [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2013, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/68 "2013-02-24T16:00:42Z")
> [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#):
>
> B/c Asperger’s can result in an obsessive compulsive fixtation. I think pedophilia is most likely the result of Asperger’s like behavior and mentality.
I can definitely see that. Hearing about how the internet can be a kind of echo chamber for pedophiles (Reddit) you kind of wonder about the people who don’t seem to feel any remorse or guilt for being sexually attracted to children. To read their screeds about how there’s nothing wrong with it, that we’re somehow prudes for condemning them, us downright chilling.
It seems to come from a mind so utterly focused and obsessed with something that they cannot put any context into their beliefs. I can definitely see the Asperger’s angle there.
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### Author:  [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2013, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/69 "2013-02-24T16:08:56Z")
I too, cannot comprehend the mind of a pedophile predator-one of these guys (ex-priest James Porter) admitted to molesting over 100 children! After being kicked out of the priesthood, he continued his activities-he even molested his own children.
Quite apart from the terrible harm that these offenders inflict, they seem to have no conception that what they are doing is wrong-Porter didn’t seem ashamed in the least.
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### Author:  [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet)
#### Post date: [February 25, 2013, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/70 "2013-02-25T10:18:29Z")
> [@Incubus](#):
>
> I can definitely see that. Hearing about how the internet can be a kind of echo chamber for pedophiles (Reddit) you kind of wonder about the people who don’t seem to feel any remorse or guilt for being sexually attracted to children. To read their screeds about how there’s nothing wrong with it, that we’re somehow prudes for condemning them, us downright chilling.
>
> It seems to come from a mind so utterly focused and obsessed with something that they cannot put any context into their beliefs. I can definitely see the Asperger’s angle there.
Remember in Lolita when Humbert Humbert thought Lolita was coming on to him? Reminded me of the Aspies who think that if you talk to them even once or twice they’re best friends forever.
Like they seem not to have the best social skills as well…
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### Author:  [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet)
#### Post date: [February 25, 2013, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/71 "2013-02-25T10:23:28Z")
> [@Kimstu](#):
>
> I can’t speak for **AboutAsWeird** , but I interpreted the question as meaning that pedophilic attraction might not really be on the spectrum of naturally occurring human sexual desires, but instead might be just some kind of pathology induced by trauma or mental illness or whatever.
>
> Which is indeed an important question, because if pedophilic attraction is some kind of acquired pathological impulse then it can potentially be cured, at least in some cases. Whereas if it’s just a naturally occurring variant of the sexual hardwiring of the human brain in some unlucky minority of humans, then ISTM that while its effects can be controlled, it probably can’t be actually cured or extirpated from the sufferer’s psyche.
This. This exactly. Not to mention that if you did a psychological profile it would most likely indicate that pedophiles are emotionally stunted…
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### Author:  [@huck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/huck)
#### Post date: [February 25, 2013, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/72 "2013-02-25T18:54:09Z")
I’m far from an expert in autism spectrum disorders, but I believe the intuitive inotion that people with Asperger’s are more likely to commit violent crimes (because of their lack of social skills/empathy)has been investigated, with the research showing that violent offenders with Asperger’s also had other, significant psychopatholical diagnoses.
An expert can and should correct me, but I think the conclusion was overall that Asperger’s people are far more likely to be victims than offenders. And it is quite true that kids with social problems of various kiinds are more likely to be exploited sexually.
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### Author:  [@Gary\_Oak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Oak)
#### Post date: [February 26, 2013, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/73 "2013-02-26T12:00:30Z")
I just don’t get people… most people would be far more sympathetic to murders than pedophiles…
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### Author:  [@solosam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solosam)
#### Post date: [February 26, 2013, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/74 "2013-02-26T12:17:02Z")
> [@alnewman](#):
>
> I agree, when someone acts on their desire to have sex with children they dehumanize themselves but those who make sincere efforts to reform themselves and yet are still shunned by society are not treated fairly. God forbid if any of your family members ever became a part of this group of people. To experience never being forgiven shows that society chooses to dehumanize rather then treat and offer the offenders help.
If any of my family members were pedophiles, I would shoot them in the head.
I’d go to jail, but at least my conscience would be clean.
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### Author:  [@solosam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solosam)
#### Post date: [February 26, 2013, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/75 "2013-02-26T12:49:03Z")
Sorry, I posted in haste. I believe my above post requires a little explanation.
In my town, a man recently took his three year old daughter and ejaculated into her mouth. His wife caught him. She turned him into the police.
I have a daughter about the same age. If my spouse, or a member of my family, or anyone else, were to do the same to my child, I would not turn him into the police. I would disable him, torture him to death, THEN turn him into the police.
If the woman described above had murdered her husband, and I was sitting on the jury, there is no way I could convict her.
Let me be abundantly clear on this point: There is no limit on the amount of violence I am willing to use against someone who is a threat to my child.
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### Author:  [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)
#### Post date: [February 26, 2013, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/76 "2013-02-26T13:35:41Z")
> [@alnewman](#):
>
> I agree, when someone acts on their desire to have sex with children they dehumanize themselves but those who make sincere efforts to reform themselves and yet are still shunned by society are not treated fairly. God forbid if any of your family members ever became a part of this group of people. To experience never being forgiven shows that society chooses to dehumanize rather then treat and offer the offenders help.
Most children who are molested are molested by someone they know (I think ‘stepdad’ is the most common culprit). What helps perpetuate this is sympathy for the offender by relatives- often the sympathy for the perpetrator is greater than the victim.
If my family member was accused of molesting (say, my child) I would assume the worst until proven otherwise. To show any mercy or sympathy just because they are blood is potentially allowing the abuse to continue.
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### Author:  [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)
#### Post date: [February 26, 2013, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/77 "2013-02-26T22:39:28Z")
> [@Kimstu](#):
>
> Which is indeed an important question, because if pedophilic attraction is some kind of acquired pathological impulse then it can potentially be cured, at least in some cases.
I’m not sure that necessarily follows.
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### Author:  [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)
#### Post date: [February 27, 2013, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/78 "2013-02-27T05:49:33Z")
> [@solosam](#):
>
> If any of my family members were pedophiles, I would shoot them in the head.
>
> I’d go to jail, but at least my conscience would be clean.
What if your family member was a pedophile in that they have pedophilic urges, but they successfully restrained themselves from acting on it all their life, they are conscientious and horrified by the thought of hurting a child and understand that they cannot ever act on their urges, and they take practical steps to avoid temptation (e.g. never volunteering to babysit for relatives, always having another adult around when they’re with kids, not going to their niece’s birthday party at a swimming pool, etc…).
> [@solosam](#):
>
> Let me be abundantly clear on this point: There is no limit on the amount of violence I am willing to use against someone who is a threat to my child.
No one in this thread is saying that pedophiles who actually abuse children should get away with it. But there are pedophiles out there who’ve never abused anyone and are horrified by their own urges. Would you classify these people as enough of a “threat to your child” to preemptively take them out?
And do you really think that your attitude towards torturing and murdering pedophiles is productive at all? I would hope that the ideal situation would be that pedophiles who are battling their urges would be able to seek help controlling them and live a productive life. But if they know that many people in their community would kill them for their thoughts, even if they’ve never hurted a kid, then it’s far less likely they would ever step forward to get help/treatment. Then you’re just forcing them underground, where they’re even more isolated and not developing good coping skills, making it perhaps even more likely that they actually abuse a kid in the future.
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### Author:  [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)
#### Post date: [February 27, 2013, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/79 "2013-02-27T08:37:43Z")
I’m still in two minds about this - on the one hand, I have first-hand experience of the active kind of paedophile and really have zero sympathy for any paedophile who acts on their impulses, on the other hand, there’s still a part of me that doesn’t want to completely ostracise the non-acting ones - just to be humane and also, I suppose, not to drive them underground.
But the line is difficult to set - in the past I think I went too far out of my way to be humane - hell, I actually thought I was OK with an out non-active paedo babysitting my kids. I don’t think _that_ any more - not sure if I ever really felt that, or just thought I _should_ feel that. But I will _never_ be in the “shoot them like animals” camp, either.
Still, what to do, with the ones who are out and yet not active? No actual crime has been committed. But we mandate treatment, even commitment, for non-criminal mental health issues all the time. Is that where we should end up? Sometimes I think so. “Yes, Bill, it’s not your fault that you’re attracted to kids - it’s not Bob’s fault that he’s an extreme schizophrenic either, but neither of you are safe to be out in society by yourselves, sorry!” Sounds logical, yet cold, when you put it that way. For both Bill and Bob, actually.
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### Author:  [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)
#### Post date: [February 27, 2013, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/born-this-way-sympathy-and-science-for-pedophiles/649889/80 "2013-02-27T10:17:24Z")
> [@MrDibble](#):
>
> Still, what to do, with the ones who are out and yet not active? No actual crime has been committed. But we mandate treatment, even commitment, for non-criminal mental health issues all the time. Is that where we should end up? Sometimes I think so. “Yes, Bill, it’s not your fault that you’re attracted to kids - it’s not Bob’s fault that he’s an extreme schizophrenic either, but neither of you are safe to be out in society by yourselves, sorry!” Sounds logical, yet cold, when you put it that way. For both Bill and Bob, actually.
IANAPsychiatrist, but it’s my understanding that nowadays it’s a pretty high bar to gets someone committed or forced into involuntary treatment. They have to be an _imminent_ (really, really, imminent) threat to themselves or others. And the hospitalization is periodically reviewed, with the patient being released if they’re no longer an imminent danger to self/others.
Someone who is schizophrenic or depressed can often be stabilized with treatment and a short hospitalization, but treatment won’t change your sexual orientation (if the scientists are right about pedophilia being an orientation). So if having pedophilic urges alone is enough to make someone an “imminent threat”, then this amounts to forcing long-term (even lifelong) hospitalization for someone who hasn’t committed a crime.
And even in the current social climate of pedophiles being the lowest of the low and totally anethema, “won’t someone think of the children”, and lawmakers constantly lengthening mandatory sentencing - _active_ pedophiles who’ve actually traumatized many children will often receive less than life sentences and are eventually released into the community.
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