# Boston Brakes - real or rumor? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 9, 2013, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boston-brakes-real-or-rumor/663037 "2013-07-09T12:26:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boston-brakes-real-or-rumor/663037/21 "2013-07-09T22:24:45Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I have no idea what a “Boston brakes” is. > > Since the OP doesn’t seem to be interested in elaborating, would anyone else care to? It’s what the OP said it was, someone hacking into your car and controlling it (usually to kill the driver). Since its not a real thing, there isn’t really much elaborating to be done. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boston-brakes-real-or-rumor/663037/22 "2013-07-09T22:47:57Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > And cats aren’t trying to evolve opposable thumbs, no sir, no way… And why is that so implausible? [The dolphins have done it.](http://www.theonion.com/articles/dolphins-evolve-opposable-thumbs,284/) 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boston-brakes-real-or-rumor/663037/23 "2013-07-09T23:05:54Z")
This “Boston Brakes” scenario, however, sounds less plausible than dolphins evolving opposable thumbs. For now. What’s more plausible is that cars may evolve this way in the foreseeable future. Here’s one plausible in-road: Cars now maintain on-board diagnostic monitoring information and pollution control data, which is available for after-the-fact read-out at a diagnostic center. Those smog-check machines are wired up, and your smog checks are done on-line with the Department of Motor Vehicles. They know the results of your smog check before you do! What’s to stop the regulations from evolving to where you car’s diagnostic data is continuously up-loaded, or anytime on demand from Control Central? Hey, we already have wireless gas and electric meters in our houses, whereby the Power Company can track our energy usage day-to-day. (This is not just a CT. I can go on-line, and have gone on-line to PG&E and viewed graphs of my usage.) And there’s the “voluntary” (for now anyway) scheme where PG&E will not only monitor, but actually manipulate our in-home heating and cooling for maximal efficiency (and for maximal comfort, as defined by them). One of the generic fears about bureaucratic regulations is that regulators know no bounds. What’s to stop DMV from regulating, eventually, that all cars be wirelessly on-line to the Department? The technology is certainly not very far-fetched today. Will there evolve some sort of Car Control Central? A friend of mine envisioned something of the sort, way back in the early 1970’s: When you want to go somewhere, you’ll get in your car, dial in your destination (say, someplace across town), and then you’ll just sit back and let the car take you there. As soon as you enter your destination, Car Control Central will immediately begin to make subtle changes in the traffic flows on all the streets and freeways, to integrate your car into the flow most efficiently. Fast forward 40 years: Google is developing a horseless-and-driverless carriage. Can my friend’s prophecy be far behind? See where this is going? The technology is close, and that development is well under way. Government regulation is a slippery slope. Nanny-statism is a perennial spectre. Our roads are getting ever more congested; traffic management is getting ever more complicated; environmental regulations and energy conservation rules are getting ever more extensive and intrusive. We may not be the masters of our vehicles in another 40 years. And when our cars are controlled remotely (which seems like a very plausible direction we may be heading), hacking is going to happen. Unless our understanding of computer and communications security makes similar advances. (Which, one hopes, is also plausible.) ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boston-brakes-real-or-rumor/663037/24 "2013-07-09T23:26:53Z")
The 3:00 mark in this [**YouTube video**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNl0aYt4dWM&feature=channel). [**This story**](http://www.techhive.com/article/196293/car_hackers_can_kill_brakes_engine_and_more.html). The video and the story are from 2010. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boston-brakes-real-or-rumor/663037/25 "2013-07-09T23:46:23Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > The 3:00 mark in this [**YouTube video**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNl0aYt4dWM&feature=channel). > > [**This story**](http://www.techhive.com/article/196293/car_hackers_can_kill_brakes_engine_and_more.html). The video and the story are from 2010. The [source material](http://www.autosec.org/pubs/cars-oakland2010.pdf)appears to be legitimate and claims brakes can be disabled. That makes this a little scarier. However it would require an additional devices to program the system or the brakes would be noticeably disabled when the car was started, and if an accident resulted the additional devices could be found. They were only able to create a temporary RPM increase in the engine, so the Boston Brakes scenario is still dubious. However, Senegoid is correct that we are rapidly heading to a situation where it is feasible. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boston-brakes-real-or-rumor/663037/26 "2013-07-10T00:12:07Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I know some cars have drive by wire (that is, the gas pedal is connected to the engine via electronics), but the last I heard, and it was years ago, brake by wire wasn’t legal. It still had to have a physical connection. Has that changed? Are there cars where there’s no physical connection between the brake pedal and the master cylinder? I know there are cars where the computer can control/apply the brakes, but that’s different then brake by wire. Probably true in a technical sense. But, from time to time, my car decides to use the brakes differently than I am doing. I’ll step on the pedal and the car decides I’m sliding and takes action. It’s all computer controlled. of course. …could that be hacked somehow? I dunno. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boston-brakes-real-or-rumor/663037/27 "2013-07-10T01:28:24Z")
I recently retired as a truck mechanic, I do know the factory techs had the ability to start the engine, and run any of the accessories operated by the computer from thousands of miles away. Thats what we were told in school anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boston-brakes-real-or-rumor/663037/28 "2013-07-10T02:00:44Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > Probably true in a technical sense. > But, from time to time, my car decides to use the brakes differently than I am doing. > I’ll step on the pedal and the car decides I’m sliding and takes action. > It’s all computer controlled. of course. > > …could that be hacked somehow? I dunno. That’s your ABS pulsating the brakes. Also, I used to drive (from time to time) a Rav4 that could apply the brakes if you held the coast button on the cruise control for a certain amount of time. But none of this is “brake by wire”. Brake-by-wire would mean that your brake pedal is connected to a sensor, which goes to the computer which sends a signal to the an actuator somewhere in the engine compartment to push the piston in the MBC. To the best of my knowledge, there’s no car that does this. There are cars that do this on the accelerator side, just not the braking. So far as I know (and I could be wrong) every car right now has physical connection that goes from the brake pedal directly to the MBC. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boston-brakes-real-or-rumor/663037/29 "2013-07-10T02:17:17Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Brake-by-wire would mean that your brake pedal is connected to a sensor, which goes to the computer which sends a signal to the an actuator somewhere in the engine compartment to push the piston in the MBC. That exists on the market today in several forms. Radar braking systems will slow or stop your car if it detects an imminent collision. > **[Collision avoidance system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collision_avoidance_system)** > > A collision avoidance system (CAS), also known as a pre-crash system, forward collision warning system (FCW), or collision mitigation system, is an advanced driver-assistance system designed to prevent or reduce the severity of a collision. In its basic form, a forward collision warning system monitors a vehicle's speed, the speed of the vehicle in front of it, and the distance between the vehicles, so that it can provide a warning to the driver if the vehicles get too close, potentially helpi Some don’t activate the brakes but many (MB, Volvo, VW) will stop your car with no human interaction. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boston-brakes-real-or-rumor/663037/30 "2013-07-10T02:43:20Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Just read the article. I call bullshit at least on the cars I work on. Play an MP3 file and gain control of the telematics unit? Nope not happening. Why not? The telematics unit has two way communication with the on star or equivalent system that is tied into the car stereo. Software bugs in the stereo will allow it to be taken over by a malicious mp3. Once that is done a software bug in the telematics unit will allow it to be taken over by a malicious car stereo. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boston-brakes-real-or-rumor/663037/31 "2013-07-10T11:25:38Z")
> [@gazpacho](#): > > Why not? The telematics unit has two way communication with the on star or equivalent system that is tied into the car stereo. Software bugs in the stereo will allow it to be taken over by a malicious mp3. Once that is done a software bug in the telematics unit will allow it to be taken over by a malicious car stereo. The telematics unit (and the rest of the car( program via digital electrical signals sent via the electrical network in the car. An MP3 file plays audio. The car is not programmed via audio. The car is not programmed via the CD/MP3 player. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boston-brakes-real-or-rumor/663037/32 "2013-07-10T11:50:04Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Brake-by-wire would mean that your brake pedal is connected to a sensor, which goes to the computer which sends a signal to the an actuator somewhere in the engine compartment to push the piston in the MBC. To the best of my knowledge, there’s no car that does this. Brake-by-wire is not necessary in order to implement a “Boston brakes” scenario. The ABS system provides the ability to prevent brake pressure from being applied to any/all calipers even when the brake pedal is pressed. A “Boston brakes” scenario would only require that the ABS computer be spoofed into believing the wheels are skidding; then it would refuse to allow hydraulic pressure to reach the calipers. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boston-brakes-real-or-rumor/663037/33 "2013-07-10T11:56:56Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Brake-by-wire is not necessary in order to implement a “Boston brakes” scenario. The ABS system provides the ability to prevent brake pressure from being applied to any/all calipers even when the brake pedal is pressed. A “Boston brakes” scenario would only require that the ABS computer be spoofed into believing the wheels are skidding; then it would refuse to allow hydraulic pressure to reach the calipers. This is true. However, how do you get the ABS system to ignore the valid signals which are coming from the 4 wheel speed sensors? That’s were it falls apart. I can think of no message sent across the network that would override the information supplied by the 4 sensors hardwired to ABS. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boston-brakes-real-or-rumor/663037/34 "2013-07-11T21:21:33Z")
In case anyone is interested Stanley McChrystal’s [alibi](http://www.duffelblog.com/2013/06/mcchrystal-michael-hastings-alibi/) is airtight. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boston-brakes-real-or-rumor/663037/35 "2013-07-11T21:45:34Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > The telematics unit (and the rest of the car( program via digital electrical signals sent via the electrical network in the car. An MP3 file plays audio. The car is not programmed via audio. The car is not programmed via the CD/MP3 player. Nobody is talking about programming by audio. A corrupted mp3 file could allow malicious code to run on the stereo if there are bug in the stereo. The stereo talk interacts with the onstar system which interacts with the main computer on the car. A series of software bugs could allow the car to be taken over by the stereo. ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boston-brakes-real-or-rumor/663037/36 "2013-07-11T22:11:04Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > In case anyone is interested Stanley McChrystal’s [alibi](http://www.duffelblog.com/2013/06/mcchrystal-michael-hastings-alibi/) is airtight. Wasn’t that the Blue Angels flying overhead? ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boston-brakes-real-or-rumor/663037/37 "2013-07-11T22:16:12Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > In case anyone is interested Stanley McChrystal’s [alibi](http://www.duffelblog.com/2013/06/mcchrystal-michael-hastings-alibi/) is airtight. That article is an Onion-worthy whoosh. There’s no telling which individual sentences in it are serious, although quite a few clearly aren’t. > [@](#): > > [Alexandria Police spokesman Col. Allen Mustard allegedly speaking:]“We have verified the alibi by peeking in the folder sent to us from Los Angeles and have no reason to believe Gen. McChrystal was in any way involved in this incident. I’ve done what you asked, please, just don’t hurt my kids.” > > McChrystal gave a brief statement to the media outside his home. Reporters gathered outside were asked to move “a little to the left, closer to the large X in the lawn” prior to him answering any questions. ETA: . . . and this: > [@](#): > > When asked about his well-timed dinner party, McChrystal, dressed in a Nehru jacket and holding a cat, thanked his guests “for being honest with the authorities since we all know what happens when we tell the wrong people the wrong things.” ---
**Author:** ![PAJARES](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PAJARES](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PAJARES)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boston-brakes-real-or-rumor/663037/38 "2016-07-15T18:11:16Z")
Boston Brakes is no longer considered a “conspiracy theory”, since its proven and well living. Hackers themselves documented live and on camera. Possibly in the nighties only intelligence agencies were doing it but now days seems any good hacker can if he has done his homework. > **[Hackers Remotely Kill a Jeep on the Highway—With Me in It](https://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-highway/)** > > I was driving 70 mph on the edge of downtown St. Louis when the exploit began to take hold. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boston-brakes-real-or-rumor/663037/39 "2016-07-15T20:52:04Z")
Any relation to a Boston Marriage? ETA: just realized this a particularly unfortunate zombie birth. I’ll ask a mod, and maybe this can be its epitaph. ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boston-brakes-real-or-rumor/663037/40 "2016-07-16T04:56:09Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Brake-by-wire would mean that your brake pedal is connected to a sensor, which goes to the computer which sends a signal to the an actuator somewhere in the engine compartment to push the piston in the MBC. To the best of my knowledge, there’s no car that does this. . The old Citroen hydro pneumatic system may have done this. The brake pedal did not move at all, it was just a button on the floor. Pressing harder sent higher pressure hydraulic fluid from the suspension (yes) to the respective brakes. Each wheel’s suspension provided the power for that wheel’s brake only, via control valves. All the systems were fed from a central hydraulic pump. There were various reservoirs around the car to handle failures. [http://www.citroenet.org.uk/miscellaneous/hydraulics/hydraulics-16.html](http://www.citroenet.org.uk/miscellaneous/hydraulics/hydraulics-16.html) Dennis [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boston-brakes-real-or-rumor/663037.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boston-brakes-real-or-rumor/663037.md?page=3)