# Both a king and a queen **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 5, 2013, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-a-king-and-a-queen/649348 "2013-02-05T01:09:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-a-king-and-a-queen/649348/41 "2013-02-06T16:12:32Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > There is a relatively famous photograph of the Three Queens in mourning for George VI at the time of his funeral: His mother Queen Mary; his widow Queen Elizabeth (AKA the Queen Mother); and his daughter the new Queen (Regnant) Elizabeth II. Yes, at Paddington Station, February 1952: [http://christiangeorgefacevedo.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/three-queens.jpg?w=590&h=442](http://christiangeorgefacevedo.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/three-queens.jpg?w=590&h=442) Plenty of monarchies still around today: > **[Monarchy | Current monarchies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy#Current_monarchies)** > > Currently, there are 43 nations and a population of roughly half a billion people in the world with a monarch as head of state. They fall roughly into the following categories: > King Charles III is, separately, monarch of fifteen Commonwealth realms (Antigua and Barbuda, the Commonwealth of Australia, the Commonwealth of the Bahamas, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, the Independent State of Papua New Guinea, the Federation of Saint Christopher and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent a... > **[List of current monarchs of sovereign states | Monarchs by country](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_monarchs#Monarchs_by_country)** > > 1.List of current reigning monarchs by length of reign | > 2.List of current non-sovereign monarchs | > 3.List of current heads of state and government | > 4.Heads of former ruling families | > 5.List of monarchies | > 6.List of current heirs apparent | > 7.List of current consorts of sovereigns | > 8.Records of heads of state ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-a-king-and-a-queen/649348/42 "2013-02-06T16:57:40Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > In the UK, there are moves to allow a future gay monarch to have their partner styled king or queen consort, and for the biological children of the monarch (but not their partner) to be included in the rights of succession: > > [U.K.: Law Proposed to Accommodate a Gay King or Queen](http://www.advocate.com/news/world-news/2013/01/22/uk-law-proposed-accommodate-gay-king-or-queen) > > It’s only a proposal, but, given the length of time before it’s likely to have any effect (when Will and Kate’s kid succeeds to the throne in maybe fifty years), that it’s even being taken seriously now suggests a good chance it will be law by then. Would that be the title “Queen consort”? Here I thought queen was a bit perjorative. Quite a change from how Edward II was rumoured to have been dealt with… ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-a-king-and-a-queen/649348/43 "2013-02-06T18:57:52Z")
It was his favorite card game. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-a-king-and-a-queen/649348/44 "2013-02-06T19:35:16Z")
The village of Otuam Ghana has [a king named Peggy](http://www.the-spearhead.com/2010/11/13/american-woman-named-king-in-african-fishing-village/). I remember seeing her on the Daily Show, Jon Stewart asked why she had not been made queen, she explained that the queen has different duties, sort of as a people’s advocate. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-a-king-and-a-queen/649348/45 "2013-02-06T22:48:21Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Queen Elizabeth II is also the Duke of Normandy, Duke of Lancaster and the Lord of Mann. “Is” is a strong word for the Duke of Lancaster, since the Queen can’t actually hold any British peerage. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-a-king-and-a-queen/649348/46 "2013-02-06T23:28:09Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > “Is” is a strong word for the Duke of Lancaster, since the Queen can’t actually hold any British peerage. From Wikipedia: > [@](#): > > The Duchy of Lancaster continues to exist as a separate entity from the Crown Estate and currently provides income for the monarch, Elizabeth II. The Dukedom became extinct after Henry VI, as original charter restricted it to ‘heirs male’. Despite this, George V approved the ongoing use of the title. > > It is customary at formal dinners in Lancashire and in Lancastrian regiments of the armed forces for the Loyal toast to the crown to be announced as “The Queen, Duke of Lancaster”. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-a-king-and-a-queen/649348/47 "2013-02-07T03:58:51Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > Now that the question’s been answered seriously: Did anyone else read the subject and read it as “what if the king turned out to be gay?” Actually, I read it as “what if the king/queen has a sex-change operation?” After all, Britain has had a gay king before (as someone else pointed out) just as the US has had a gay president. It reminded me of the joke about what category [Renée Richards](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren%C3%A9e_Richards) would play in a tennis tournament. Mixed singles ---
**Author:** ![Bones\_Daley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@Bones\_Daley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bones_Daley)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-a-king-and-a-queen/649348/48 "2013-02-07T12:28:43Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Although he married and fathered children, James VI of Sccots and I of England was widely regarded at the time to be somewhat effeminate and to have an eye for handsome young men for his ‘favourites’. Recalling Elizabeth’s famous address to the people, one wag commented, “Elizabeth was our king, and now James is our queen.” 🙂 Going back a further 500 years from James VI and I, William II, known as William “Rufus”, who neither married nor sired any progeny, was almost certainly gay, and presided over what was regarded as a “dissolute” court. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-a-king-and-a-queen/649348/49 "2013-02-07T13:18:35Z")
Wasn’t William Rufus killed in a “hunting accident”? ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_X](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@Bob\_X](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_X)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-a-king-and-a-queen/649348/50 "2013-02-09T07:59:23Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Wasn’t William Rufus killed in a “hunting accident”? Yes, a very convenient one. Edward II was also notoriously gay, and after being overthrown by his wife and her lover, as regents for Edward III (supposedly his son, and probably he did manage to “perform” at least enough to get an heir conceived, but the paternity might be questioned), he was supposedly put to death by having a red-hot poker shoved up his anus. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-a-king-and-a-queen/649348/51 "2013-02-09T09:32:28Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Also, I like the way they say “…if William _accedes_ to the throne.” (My italics.) What do you mean? Apart from _give consent_, “accede” also just means _arrive at or come into office_. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-a-king-and-a-queen/649348/52 "2013-02-09T10:30:09Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > What do you mean? Apart from _give consent_, “accede” also just means _arrive at or come into office_. Yes, I brain-farted thinking that word looked really strange, and I laughed at the smell, as it were. I was thinking it was a novel way of avoiding the synonym (of course etymologically related) of “to succeed” (as in success/accomplishment/victory) in his “succession.” I couldn’t figure out a verb for “succeeding” for the active party except “when the Prince successes to the throne.” I was impressed at how clever the word “acceded” was to get around it. This explanation took me longer to piece together from memory than when I made the mistake. Which is why making mistakes can save a lot of time. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-a-king-and-a-queen/649348/53 "2013-02-09T11:03:38Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Also, I like the way they say “…if William _accedes_ to the throne.” (My italics.) Which is correct. To accede means to agree, to consent, to attain to an office. It might seem that _succeed_ is the right word - and it is not wrong - but accede is more correct. William will succeed but he could refuse the throne meaning he wouldn’t accede to it. Its easy to confuse the right of succession with the actual act of consenting/accepting the office. Doh. Soz. Late to the party as ever. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Encinitas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@Encinitas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Encinitas)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-a-king-and-a-queen/649348/54 "2013-02-09T14:30:04Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > After all, Britain has had a gay king before (as someone else pointed out) just as the US has had a gay president. Oh, what did I miss? Gay president you say? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-a-king-and-a-queen/649348/55 "2013-02-09T14:36:58Z")
James Buchanan is widely rumored/believed to have been gay. Not definitive. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-a-king-and-a-queen/649348/56 "2013-02-09T17:57:25Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Wasn’t William Rufus killed in a “hunting accident”? > [@Bob\_X](#): > > Yes, a very convenient one. Very, very convenient, but also quite possibly very real. Those sort of hunting accidents were not uncommon ( he lost his elder brother Richard in much the same way when he was a teen ) and it doesn’t seem to have caused a great deal of contemporary suspicion even among those not fond of his successor Henry I. As it was Henry barely managed to seize the throne - if the rightful heir ( his older brother Robert Curthose ) had been a tad more assertive, Robert probably would have taken it from him. Also while William II _was_ a bit “dissolute” in some respects ( he was apparently a hedonist and liked to party ), he was also quite competent and effective as king. Barlow thinks he probably swung both ways, but the evidence is a bit equivocal. > [@](#): > > Edward II was also notoriously gay, Notoriously, possibly not actually ;). One has to be careful of anti-Edwardian propaganda here. Both his rumored spectacularly gruesome demise and his preference for the same gender _may_ be true, but also may not be. For example at least one contemporary counter-rumor ( from the continent ) was that Edward II’s sexual relationship was not with final favorite Hugh Despenser the Younger but rather his wife ( and Edward’s niece ) Eleanor de Clare, such that she was kept under surveillance after his deposition in case she turned out to be pregnant. Edward II was _not_ a particularly competent king and one of his chief problems was in being easily led by favorites, a charge that can be laid at the feet of several weaker English kings. But his reputation was blackened considerably in later generations, so it is hard to tease out the truth of the nature of his relationships with male favorites. It’s quite plausible they ( or some of them ) were sexual, but they may not have been. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-a-king-and-a-queen/649348/57 "2013-02-09T18:08:49Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > …(I can’t actually think of any current reigning Kings. Surely there must be one somewhere!) > … King Carl XVI Gustaf of Sweden King Juan Carlos I of Spain Emperor Akihito of Japan (might not count because he doesn’t even have theoretical _de jure_ power anymore) King Harald V of Norway King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia King Bhumibol Adulyadej of Thailand King Tupou VI of Tonga ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-a-king-and-a-queen/649348/58 "2013-02-09T18:55:58Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > King Carl XVI Gustaf of Sweden > King Juan Carlos I of Spain > Emperor Akihito of Japan (might not count because he doesn’t even have theoretical _de jure_ power anymore)… The same is true of the King of Sweden. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-a-king-and-a-queen/649348/59 "2013-02-09T19:27:56Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > The same is true of the King of Sweden. But he might give you things you are needin’. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-a-king-and-a-queen/649348/60 "2013-02-09T20:58:05Z")
> [@Ken001](#): > > … > > It might seem that _succeed_ is the right word - and it is not wrong - … So, I was right in my worry, but wrong about my conclusion. Story of my life. Also, what’s the verb for what Edward the whoever did so he could stay with “the woman he loves,” the American divorcee? 2) Never knew that about Buchanan. In fact, it’s now the _only_ thing I know about him. Cite? Because I plan to set my tongue a-flapping with that one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-a-king-and-a-queen/649348.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-a-king-and-a-queen/649348.md?page=4)