# Both Death Penalty and Abortion or Neither **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 10, 2009, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-death-penalty-and-abortion-or-neither/513270 "2009-10-10T03:03:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-death-penalty-and-abortion-or-neither/513270/381 "2009-11-07T16:21:26Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > However it will reduce the number of abortions especially for idiotic reasons like if a rich whore has one just so that her affair with someone won’t get caught. Yes yes, it’s all about the whores. Only, you know, rich people won’t have any trouble getting an abortion. They never have. They never will. And if there’s one group I’m sure we all want reproducing, it’s _whores_. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-death-penalty-and-abortion-or-neither/513270/382 "2009-11-07T16:30:04Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Yes yes, it’s all about the whores. > > Only, you know, rich people won’t have any trouble getting an abortion. They never have. They never will. > > And if there’s one group I’m sure we all want reproducing, it’s _whores_. If they attempt to go to Canada or Mexico or the Netherlands to have one they will be forbidden to reenter the United States unless they wish to be put on trial. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-death-penalty-and-abortion-or-neither/513270/383 "2009-11-07T16:30:30Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > A lot of the doctors will not get caught. Why are you arguing for a ban that you have no interest in seeing enforced? ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-death-penalty-and-abortion-or-neither/513270/384 "2009-11-07T16:32:36Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Yes yes, it’s all about the whores. > > Only, you know, rich people won’t have any trouble getting an abortion. They never have. They never will. > > And if there’s one group I’m sure we all want reproducing, it’s _whores_. I can’t imagine **Der Trihs** wouldn’t be smitten by you. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-death-penalty-and-abortion-or-neither/513270/385 "2009-11-07T16:34:48Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > I can’t imagine **Der Trihs** wouldn’t be smitten by you. I dunno about smitten, but from my observation, Der Trihs has a low tolerance for bullshit, which is why he might appreciate her statement. Thanks for sharing, though. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-death-penalty-and-abortion-or-neither/513270/386 "2009-11-07T16:37:34Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Why are you arguing for a ban that you have no interest in seeing enforced? It will be enforced but I am realistic enough to realize that not all abortions will be stopped. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-death-penalty-and-abortion-or-neither/513270/387 "2009-11-07T16:38:24Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I dunno about smitten, but from my observation, Der Trihs has a low tolerance for bullshit, which is why he might appreciate her statement. > > Thanks for sharing, though. _You’re welcome!_ You’ll surely never catch them using hyperbole as garnish. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-death-penalty-and-abortion-or-neither/513270/388 "2009-11-07T16:43:15Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > I can’t imagine **Der Trihs** wouldn’t be smitten by you. To be liked by someone who is in favor of women’s rights over their bodies and who doesn’t call women whores? Wow, that’s quite a slam. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-death-penalty-and-abortion-or-neither/513270/389 "2009-11-07T16:44:35Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > It will be enforced but I am realistic enough to realize that not all abortions will be stopped. Why do you think it’s a “rich whore” whose abortion would be stopped? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-death-penalty-and-abortion-or-neither/513270/390 "2009-11-07T16:50:36Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > It will be enforced but I am realistic enough to realize that not all abortions will be stopped. Would a ceremonial sacrifice of one abortion doctor per year satisfy you? I’m only asking because if it’s left solely to the interests and resources of local law enforcement, I figure states like New York and California will make only token efforts, while states where the religious have greater influence will spend a lot of time and effort on the issue. Utah will be the strictest, I guess, but in Mississippi and Alabama and Texas and such, women who are already in poverty will be forced to remain so, burdened with more children than they can afford, or be forced into unsafe abortions (the safe ones having been driven out of town) putting their lives and health at risk. The net benefit of this escapes me. Are Americans so hard up for babies that they need to turn a million citizens into criminals in hopes of getting a few more? I should point out that the babies you’ll get will typically be born to the poorest women in your society, because wealthier women who could conceivably provide a better home (but for whatever personal reason choose not to) will ignore the frivolously-enforced ban you describe. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-death-penalty-and-abortion-or-neither/513270/391 "2009-11-07T17:07:01Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > _You’re welcome!_ > > You’ll surely never catch them using hyperbole as garnish. I appreciate that you’re trying to be clever, but I don’t think you’ll score points by making it personal instead of addressing the many reasons given in this thread why a ban would be counter-productive. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-death-penalty-and-abortion-or-neither/513270/392 "2009-11-07T17:20:06Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > A lot of the doctors will not get caught. Also quite frankly it would be the women’s fault if she tried to have an abortion but was hurt in the process, ever heard of personal responsibility? I’m so glad the ‘debate’ has finally reached this point. What took you so long? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-death-penalty-and-abortion-or-neither/513270/393 "2009-11-07T17:33:41Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Would a ceremonial sacrifice of one abortion doctor per year satisfy you? I’m only asking because if it’s left solely to the interests and resources of local law enforcement, I figure states like New York and California will make only token efforts, while states where the religious have greater influence will spend a lot of time and effort on the issue. Utah will be the strictest, I guess, but in Mississippi and Alabama and Texas and such, women who are already in poverty will be forced to remain so, burdened with more children than they can afford, or be forced into unsafe abortions (the safe ones having been driven out of town) putting their lives and health at risk. The net benefit of this escapes me. If the governments of say New York refuses to enforce the laws that would be in effect nullification of a federal law and if so like the civil rights cases of the '50s soldiers shall be deployed to enforce the law. Also like the Mann Act it will be illegal to cross state lines for abortions. > [@](#): > > Are Americans so hard up for babies that they need to turn a million citizens into criminals in hopes of getting a few more? I should point out that the babies you’ll get will typically be born to the poorest women in your society, because wealthier women who could conceivably provide a better home (but for whatever personal reason choose not to) will ignore the frivolously-enforced ban you describe. Poverty does not automatically mean doom and gloom. Many will be top candidates for the military and future wars especially if World War 3 happens with China and Russia. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-death-penalty-and-abortion-or-neither/513270/394 "2009-11-07T17:39:57Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Poverty does not automatically mean doom and gloom. Many will be top candidates for the military and future wars especially if World War 3 happens with China and Russia. Ignoring the many thousand other things wrong with this, contrary to popular belief the military does not draw exclusively or even primarily from the lower classes. In fact they’re less represented percentagewise than the upper middle. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-death-penalty-and-abortion-or-neither/513270/395 "2009-11-07T17:44:33Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I should point out that the babies you’ll get will typically be born to the poorest women in your society, because wealthier women who could conceivably provide a better home (but for whatever personal reason choose not to) will ignore the frivolously-enforced ban you describe. Yep, as with drug laws and other capricious enforcement, the poor will again get the fuzzy end of the lollipop. Unfunded mandates for all! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-death-penalty-and-abortion-or-neither/513270/396 "2009-11-07T17:45:42Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > If the governments of say New York refuses to enforce the laws that would be in effect nullification of a federal law and if so like the civil rights cases of the '50s soldiers shall be deployed to enforce the law. Also like the Mann Act it will be illegal to cross state lines for abortions. > > … > > Poverty does not automatically mean doom and gloom. Many will be top candidates for the military and future wars especially if World War 3 happens with China and Russia. I sincerely applaud the entertaining manner in which you’ve chosen to finally and irrevocably go off the deep end. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-death-penalty-and-abortion-or-neither/513270/397 "2009-11-07T18:51:29Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I sincerely applaud the entertaining manner in which you’ve chosen to finally and irrevocably go off the deep end. I have this odd notion of a Sith Lord at an abortion clinic saying from under his hood “Don’t abort them, save them! We might need them for cannon fodder until the droid and clone armies are completed…” ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-death-penalty-and-abortion-or-neither/513270/398 "2009-11-07T22:09:39Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > However it will reduce the number of abortions especially for idiotic reasons like if a rich whore has one just so that her affair with someone won’t get caught. Wow. Just…wow. The truth finally comes out. (BTW, I’m finding it really, really offensive to hear this crap from some kid who’s still in junior high) (BTW, that’s TWO cites you owe me. Of course, I’m not holding my breath) :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-death-penalty-and-abortion-or-neither/513270/399 "2009-11-07T22:17:37Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > No, a fetus has beginnings of a human body. And? A body without a mind is just meat that isn’t dead. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > But you’re male so you aren’t pregnant. Which was more or less my point; you were trying to create a false comparison between caring for an abandoned baby and unwanted pregnancy. Among the differences you were ignoring is that such a baby isn’t a direct, physical drain on the body. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-death-penalty-and-abortion-or-neither/513270/400 "2009-11-08T01:49:45Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > I can’t imagine **Der Trihs** wouldn’t be smitten by you. Even if garbling the pronouns makes the intent fuzzy, you would still be better off not posting something that looks pretty much like a personal insult. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I sincerely applaud the entertaining manner in which you’ve chosen to finally and irrevocably go off the deep end. Your intent is more than clear and you will refrain from personal insults, as well. [/Moderating] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-death-penalty-and-abortion-or-neither/513270.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-death-penalty-and-abortion-or-neither/513270.md?page=21)