# Both Death Penalty and Abortion or Neither

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-death-penalty-and-abortion-or-neither/513270>\
**Category:** Great Debates\
**Created:** [October 10, 2009, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-death-penalty-and-abortion-or-neither/513270 "2009-10-10T03:03:33Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 1\
**Showing post:** 357

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**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\
**Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-death-penalty-and-abortion-or-neither/513270/357 "2009-11-04T02:43:05Z")

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> [@Curtis LeMay](#):
>
> Also is not birth just an arbitary line? For a newborn can not survive without immediate care.

Not the same level of care as before birth; blankets and milk aren’t the same as being plugged into someone’s bloodstream. Nor did I claim that it wasn’t fairly arbitrary.

The morally important point is when the baby develops a human level mind; which would be sometime after the six month point in pregnancy at the very earliest; probably much later. And certainly NOT at conception.

> [@Der Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/99):
>
> I’ve had enough of your bullshit about me being some sort of a sadistic misogynist who enjoys seeing women suffer.

If you aren’t, then you shouldn’t push for making women suffer.

> [@Der Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/99):
>
> But anyways the pain suffered in pregnancy and childbirth is temporary compared to death.

Pregnancy and childbirth can cause permanent damage. And the death in question is the death of a thing, not a person.

> [@Der Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/99):
>
> I’m just talking about personal responsibility. Having sex is not something like “Should I have hamburger or a chicken sandwich?”, it’s a very important decision of your life.

According to YOU. You have no right to declare your ownership of women’s bodies.

> [@Der Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs/516150/99):
>
> If abortion had continued to be restricted than rates would have dropped in the general downward trend in all crime and with more enligtened programs far lower than in 1973.

And your evidence of that is? And a “more enlightened” program is one that allows abortion; outlawing abortion is barbaric, misogynistic and tyrannical, not enlightened.

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