# Both Hilary Clinton and Bernie Sanders need to officially bow out of 2020 now **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 24, 2018, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-hilary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-need-to-officially-bow-out-of-2020-now/809476 "2018-02-24T17:31:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-hilary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-need-to-officially-bow-out-of-2020-now/809476/61 "2018-02-27T15:31:05Z")
> [@JackieLikesVariety](#): > > first of all, there is no such thing as a neutral observer - women with any kind of power are going to be seen as shrill or whatever _when our society doesn’t value women in positions of power._ > > we are clearly a deeply racist country and yet we managed to elect a man who was Not White - I’ll bet we could also elect a woman. This election is not the time to test that hypothesis. You yourself even claim that women with any kind of power are going to be seen as shrill and that “our society doesn’t value women in positions of power.” If this is true, it means you are acknowledging that Warren has an inherent weakness as a candidate, and a significant one at that. We don’t need to be testing. We don’t need to be taking bets. This is not the time for staking it all on a long shot. Obama vs. McCain was different. Trump is not John McCain. The stakes are much higher this time. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-hilary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-need-to-officially-bow-out-of-2020-now/809476/62 "2018-02-27T16:23:50Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > This election is not the time to test that hypothesis. You yourself even claim that women with any kind of power are going to be seen as shrill and that “our society doesn’t value women in positions of power.” If this is true, it means you are acknowledging that Warren has an inherent weakness as a candidate, and a significant one at that. That’s all true, but there’s also value in breaking those attitudes down. That can only be done by confrontation, unfortunately, people being the jerks they are. There is also value in not letting the reflexive opposition have veto power over you. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-hilary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-need-to-officially-bow-out-of-2020-now/809476/63 "2018-02-27T16:44:29Z")
Do you see Nikki Haley as “shrill or whatever”? I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-hilary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-need-to-officially-bow-out-of-2020-now/809476/64 "2018-02-27T17:20:41Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Do you see Nikki Haley as “shrill or whatever”? I don’t. Perhaps Kelly Ann Conway broke your shrill detector. Yes, she’s quite a bit shrill and an overall pain to listen too. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-hilary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-need-to-officially-bow-out-of-2020-now/809476/65 "2018-02-27T17:22:52Z")
> [@JackieLikesVariety](#): > > we are clearly a deeply racist country I disagree, no more than other nations. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-hilary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-need-to-officially-bow-out-of-2020-now/809476/66 "2018-02-27T17:26:45Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Do you see Nikki Haley as “shrill or whatever”? I don’t. I don’t either. But there are, as I think you know, \*many \*who use that as another way to say “uppity bitch”. That number includes a disheartening number of women. Yes, a female candidate does have an uphill fight, because of a number of rationalizations and simple id-driven emotions. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-hilary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-need-to-officially-bow-out-of-2020-now/809476/67 "2018-02-28T11:46:47Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > I’m really getting tired of the term “Bernie Bro.” First of all, while I’m not generally the type who gives a shit about “gendering” things, it does happen to be a gendered insult and therefore inaccurate because I know a hell of a lot of women who supported Sanders. It’s a bad electoral strategy to attack a candidate’s _supporters_ as opposed to the candidate himself. You are needlessly alienating people who might otherwise be on your side. I don’t recall the Sanders camp attacking Hillary voters. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-hilary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-need-to-officially-bow-out-of-2020-now/809476/68 "2018-02-28T14:29:33Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > It’s a bad electoral strategy to attack a candidate’s _supporters_ as opposed to the candidate himself. You are needlessly alienating people who might otherwise be on your side. I don’t recall the Sanders camp attacking Hillary voters. “Hillary Ho” does have a certain poetic ring to it, though. Are you sure no one tried that? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-hilary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-need-to-officially-bow-out-of-2020-now/809476/69 "2018-02-28T16:26:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > “Hillary Ho” does have a certain poetic ring to it, though. Are you sure no one tried that? 😉 ‘HillBots’ was most common. The idea being that those of us who supported Clinton over Sanders were soulless corporate drones. The fact that Blalron doesn’t remember this says more about him than it does about the virtuousness of Sanders supporters. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-hilary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-need-to-officially-bow-out-of-2020-now/809476/70 "2018-02-28T18:36:09Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > ‘HillBots’ was most common. The idea being that those of us who supported Clinton over Sanders were soulless corporate drones. The fact that Blalron doesn’t remember this says more about him than it does about the virtuousness of Sanders supporters. I don’t recall hearing HillBots, but unless it was used here, I probably wouldn’t have noticed. I don’t post on other MBs or use social media. I think the only place I ever heard “Bernie Bros” was here. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-hilary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-need-to-officially-bow-out-of-2020-now/809476/71 "2018-02-28T19:15:39Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I don’t … use social media. I envy you. ---
**Author:** ![Arizona\_Mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Arizona\_Mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arizona_Mike)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-hilary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-need-to-officially-bow-out-of-2020-now/809476/72 "2018-02-28T20:22:27Z")
I wouldn’t count Hillary out by any means. She’s the Rasputin of the Democratic Party. I’d give her a 30% to 40% chance of a serious bid to run, despite her current disavowals. Harris is most likely to get the nod from the Party, though. The younger, progressive, identity-obsessed party apparatchiki are going to demand a black female, and a hard left winger as well. The older party hacks are going to have some serious issues with that and her electability, and will preach about the need to double-down on a “safe” (read: white male, or at least a center-left black male) candidate due to the overwhelming threat of another term by President Trump. It will get ugly. Speaking of former First Ladies, Michelle Obama would actually have a pretty good chance if she entered the election. She’s still pretty well regarded by the Democratic center and even many Republicans, and is not seen as far-left as Harris. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-hilary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-need-to-officially-bow-out-of-2020-now/809476/73 "2018-02-28T20:25:08Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > I envy you. I can’t wait to tell all m Facebook friends about that! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-hilary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-need-to-officially-bow-out-of-2020-now/809476/74 "2018-02-28T20:55:06Z")
I regard Michelle Obama well, and I respect her, and I would vote for almost any plausible candidate over her in the primaries. She was a good First Lady. That’s not a qualification for the Presidency. ---
**Author:** ![Arizona\_Mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Arizona\_Mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arizona_Mike)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-hilary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-need-to-officially-bow-out-of-2020-now/809476/75 "2018-02-28T21:23:37Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I regard Michelle Obama well, and I respect her, and I would vote for almost any plausible candidate over her in the primaries. She was a good First Lady. That’s not a qualification for the Presidency. There are some who would say the same about the last Democratic candidate for President, Chronos. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-hilary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-need-to-officially-bow-out-of-2020-now/809476/76 "2018-02-28T21:35:19Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I regard Michelle Obama well, and I respect her, and I would vote for almost any plausible candidate over her in the primaries. She was a good First Lady. That’s not a qualification for the Presidency. I agree, but if she was brought onto the ticket as Veep, I would go along with that. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-hilary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-need-to-officially-bow-out-of-2020-now/809476/77 "2018-02-28T21:46:52Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > “Hillary Ho” does have a certain poetic ring to it, though. Are you sure no one tried that? 😉 Huh. No, I don’t think I’ve heard that. Maybe a standardized cutesy insult name would have at least brought a sort of balance to the crackup; better than just letting the Clinton fan club claim the name “Democrats” for themselves. I may not remember every name I was calling Clintonistas in 2016, so maybe we did have one. Last week, when someone was telling “Bernie Bros” to go to Hell, I was thinking about this matter; I came up with “Clinton Kitten,” which may be even more dismissive than “Hillary Ho.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-hilary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-need-to-officially-bow-out-of-2020-now/809476/78 "2018-02-28T21:49:02Z")
> [@](#): > > There are some who would say the same about the last Democratic candidate for President, Chronos. And I’m one of them. Though by the time that Hillary Clinton ran, she at least had experience as a Senator and as Secretary of State. If Michelle Obama wants to go into politics (which I very highly doubt), then I would recommend that she start with the House of Representatives. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-hilary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-need-to-officially-bow-out-of-2020-now/809476/79 "2018-02-28T21:53:36Z")
> [@Arizona\_Mike](#): > > Harris is most likely to get the nod from the Party, though. The younger, progressive, identity-obsessed party apparatchiki are going to demand a black female, and a hard left winger as well. The older party hacks are going to have some serious issues with that and her electability, and will preach about the need to double-down on a “safe” (read: white male, or at least a center-left black male) candidate due to the overwhelming threat of another term by President Trump. It will get ugly. > > Speaking of former First Ladies, Michelle Obama would actually have a pretty good chance if she entered the election. She’s still pretty well regarded by the Democratic center and even many Republicans, and is not seen as far-left as Harris. I don’t know much about Kamala Harris, but I got the impression that the “far left” don’t trust her at all, and see her as too corporate. Unless the sites I was reading were fake news, which they may have been. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-hilary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-need-to-officially-bow-out-of-2020-now/809476/80 "2018-02-28T21:54:48Z")
I probably wouldn’t mind Tammy Duckworth or Tulsi Gabbard, neither of whom seem particularly “far” anything. But they share two problems: they’re probably both too young and _way_ too far outside the power structure to be taken seriously as leaders of the party; and the electorate _does not_ put veterans in the Presidency if it can at all help it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-hilary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-need-to-officially-bow-out-of-2020-now/809476.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-hilary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-need-to-officially-bow-out-of-2020-now/809476.md?page=5)