# Both houses in Virginia flip from R to D and Kentucky Governor too! **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 6, 2019, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-houses-in-virginia-flip-from-r-to-d-and-kentucky-governor-too/843078 "2019-11-06T14:09:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-houses-in-virginia-flip-from-r-to-d-and-kentucky-governor-too/843078/41 "2019-11-07T00:57:36Z")
> [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > Trump [endorsed](https://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/story/news/politics/southunionstreet/2017/08/08/donald-trump-tweets-endorsement-luther-strange/551290001/) Roy Moore’s _opponent_ in the primary. Moore was a Trump-like candidate, and that may well have been why many Alabama Republicans voted for him, but Trump wasn’t actually trying to convince them of any such thing. (He did, however, endorse Moore _after_ he became the nominee.) > > And the scandal absolutely _was_ an October surprise, or at any rate a [November one](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore_sexual_misconduct_allegations). There were, of course, people in Alabama who had firsthand knowledge that he had a creepy level of interest in young girls, and some of those people talked about it, but the _Washington Post_ didn’t officially break the story until November 9, well after the primary. [Polling](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_United_States_Senate_special_election_in_Alabama#Polling_4) shows a strong swing toward Jones after the story broke, although there had certainly been fears among Republicans that Moore was too extreme to win before that (which is why Trump endorsed his opponent in the first place). > > Not gonna argue against the idea that Trump has a stranglehold on the party, but the Alabama special election isn’t the best example. If anything, it shows that an endorsement from Trump is not an especially powerful force, even in a very red state. The Mandela effect must have hit me particularly hard in my recollection of how that race went down. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-houses-in-virginia-flip-from-r-to-d-and-kentucky-governor-too/843078/42 "2019-11-07T01:27:23Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > The county council of Delaware County, Pennsylvania is 5-0 Democrat for the first time since the Civil War. That is absolutely amazing. In 1955 my family moved from Philly to Delco. In those days the political power in a county government was a 3 man (okay, person, but they were all men) commission and each party was allowed to put up only two candidates. This guaranteed a minority voice on the commission, right? Not exactly. The Republican majority in Delco was so large that they could afford to have 15,000 Republicans register as Democrats and get to vote in Democratic primary for a DINO who was really a Republican and so there were never any real Dems on it. So now Delco is entirely Democrat and I think that’s amazing. I just googled it and discovered that the county chose this form of a 5 person council, the first county in PA to do so. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-houses-in-virginia-flip-from-r-to-d-and-kentucky-governor-too/843078/43 "2019-11-07T01:31:30Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Not to rain on your parade (well, kind of), but I think you’re reading far too much into this Kentucky win. > > 1. Kentucky has a _long_ history of electing dems for governor ([only 3 Republican governors in the last 70+ years](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_governors_of_Kentucky)) > > 2. Bevin’s loss has far more to do with his own personal unpopularity than some party realignment in the suburbs. While Bevin was losing his race by ~5,000 votes, the Republican candidates were trouncing the dems in statewide races for Secretary of State (by ~65,000 votes), Attorney General (by ~221,000 votes), Treasurer (by ~301,000 votes), Auditor (by ~205,000 votes), and Agriculture Commissioner (by ~276,000 votes) > I suppose you \*could \*be entering “the golden age of Democratic rule”, but it’s more likely that you’re not. Kentucky hasn’t “turned blue”. Even more to that point … I went to see how 2015 went down, hoping to see that at least the Ds had lost those races by smaller margins this time. Oops. Ds had _won_ KY AG and SoS in 2015. Treasurer they lost by fewer … so on. I’m having to conclude that this was more about a confluence of Bevin’s unpopularity _and_ Beshear’s strength there. Yeah McConnell is similarly unpopular but is his competition as known and liked as Beshear is? ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-houses-in-virginia-flip-from-r-to-d-and-kentucky-governor-too/843078/44 "2019-11-07T01:44:08Z")
I have a question about what the Dems in VA will do after the census. Will they simply gerrymander the state to their own advantage, saying turnabout is fair play? What I hope they do is get together with the other party and amend the state constitution to ban the gerrymander. Although it sounds hard, PA apparently has something in its constitution that the state courts decided outlaws gerrymandering and the court actually had to redistrict since the Rep-controlled legislature was unable to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-houses-in-virginia-flip-from-r-to-d-and-kentucky-governor-too/843078/45 "2019-11-07T02:07:45Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Kind of reminds of when the liberals in Hollywood were begging Trump electors to do something similar. And this reminds the rest of us why Whataboutism is the last refuge of those who cannot make a substantive contribution. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-houses-in-virginia-flip-from-r-to-d-and-kentucky-governor-too/843078/46 "2019-11-07T02:14:49Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Kentucky Republicans are talking about nullifying the Governor’s election and letting the Republican controlled legislature decide. > [Beshear vs Bevin: Legislature could decide race, Senate president says](https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/politics/2019/11/06/beshear-vs-bevin-legislature-could-decide-race-senate-president-says/4174103002/)? They can’t just decide to do it; the Sec of State is a Democrat, and a tie-breaker, and has already suggested Bevin should concede. A reminder of why “little” elections like Sec of State actually do matter. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-houses-in-virginia-flip-from-r-to-d-and-kentucky-governor-too/843078/47 "2019-11-07T03:16:22Z")
Apparently the Philadelphia city council has a seat reserved for a minority party. That minority party has been the Republicans for 70 years. In yesterday’s election, the seat went to the Working Families Party. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-houses-in-virginia-flip-from-r-to-d-and-kentucky-governor-too/843078/48 "2019-11-07T03:24:35Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > They can’t just decide to do it; the Sec of State is a Democrat, and a tie-breaker, and has already suggested Bevin should concede. > > A reminder of why “little” elections like Sec of State actually do matter. A follow up… I may be wrong (not familiar with KY law) but apparently Bevin believes he can kick it to the legislature if he can establish voter fraud or some cause. I think it still typically goes to the Sec of State, but what happens of the legislature refuses to accept certification, I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-houses-in-virginia-flip-from-r-to-d-and-kentucky-governor-too/843078/49 "2019-11-07T03:35:48Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Er, you seem to have confused the actor from the musical (whose name I don’t recall offhand, but whom I stipulate may have been a “Hollywood liberal”) with the actual Alexander Hamilton: > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by The Federalist Papers, #68 > It was desirable that the sense of the people should operate in the choice of the person to whom so important a trust was to be confided. This end will be answered by committing the right of making it, not to any preestablished body, but to men chosen by the people for the special purpose, and at the particular conjuncture. > > It was equally desirable, that the immediate election should be made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice. A small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations… Hamilton was clearly a Never Trumper, and probably never was able to pork Cheryl Tiegs. Sad. People are saying that he was not that great. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-houses-in-virginia-flip-from-r-to-d-and-kentucky-governor-too/843078/50 "2019-11-07T03:48:14Z")
Should the result hold up, the impact of Bashear getting elected may be fairly limited. The legislature is still held by Republicans, and I read that the Governor’s veto can be overturned by a simply majority of legislators. I assume that the Kentucky legislature will follow the example of North Carolina when Roy Cooper was elected Governor and strip his office of as much power as they can. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-houses-in-virginia-flip-from-r-to-d-and-kentucky-governor-too/843078/51 "2019-11-07T04:59:36Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > … I assume that the Kentucky legislature will follow the example of North Carolina when Roy Cooper was elected Governor and strip his office of as much power as they can. With compromise the new order of the day, perhaps they’ll strip him of just 90% as much power as they can. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-houses-in-virginia-flip-from-r-to-d-and-kentucky-governor-too/843078/52 "2019-11-07T05:46:48Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > None of that actually contradicts what **BobLibDem** wrote. I don’t feel so. Trump’s base may be loud but I don’t feel they control the nuts and bolts of the party organization. Let’s face it; most of them aren’t smart enough to run a complex organization like a national party. The people who are running the day-to-day operations of the Republican Party aren’t married to Trump. They’re in it for the long run; they’ve been around for thirty years and plan on being around for decades into the future. As far as Trump’s people are concerned, the world ends in 2024. Yes, they’re working with Trump now. He’s a Republican and he won the election. But they’d be happier working with somebody like Pence or Romney or McConnell or Ryan; one of their own. So when some mainstream conservative Republican faces a primary challenge from some fire-breathing Trumphead and the GOP leaders think the Trumphead will lose the general election to the Democrat, they’ll quietly step in. The Trumphead will be out on the streets screaming about how people need to keep their faith in Beloved Leader. But then suddenly he’ll notice he isn’t on the primary ballot and the mainstream conservative is running unopposed. And the Republican leadership will say _“Oh, gee, did nobody remind you that you needed to have your special eligibility request documentation Form-R1098 submitted ninety business days before the primary? I guess we forgot to mention that and you weren’t aware of the proper procedure. That’s too bad.”_ ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-houses-in-virginia-flip-from-r-to-d-and-kentucky-governor-too/843078/53 "2019-11-07T14:22:57Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t feel so. Trump’s base may be loud but I don’t feel they control the nuts and bolts of the party organization. Let’s face it; most of them aren’t smart enough to run a complex organization like a national party. > > The people who are running the day-to-day operations of the Republican Party aren’t married to Trump. They’re in it for the long run; they’ve been around for thirty years and plan on being around for decades into the future. As far as Trump’s people are concerned, the world ends in 2024. > > Yes, they’re working with Trump now. He’s a Republican and he won the election. But they’d be happier working with somebody like Pence or Romney or McConnell or Ryan; one of their own. > > So when some mainstream conservative Republican faces a primary challenge from some fire-breathing Trumphead and the GOP leaders think the Trumphead will lose the general election to the Democrat, they’ll quietly step in. The Trumphead will be out on the streets screaming about how people need to keep their faith in Beloved Leader. But then suddenly he’ll notice he isn’t on the primary ballot and the mainstream conservative is running unopposed. And the Republican leadership will say _“Oh, gee, did nobody remind you that you needed to have your special eligibility request documentation Form-R1098 submitted ninety business days before the primary? I guess we forgot to mention that and you weren’t aware of the proper procedure. That’s too bad.”_ I hope that you are more right than I am. My fear is that those currently in the Donald Cult are in it for the long run. Long after he has left the stage, they are going to look for the candidate in the primary who exhibits the most white nationalism and the most contempt for the poor. Suppose that a post-presidential Donald decides that he is going to be the kingmaker. He’d still hold his massive rallies of the faithful, instructing them who to support. Even after death, his sons would pick up the torch and continue his mission- not because they believe in it, but because the rubes are easy marks for buying merchandise. The Wall Street Republicans may not like it, but their party may have been permanently taken over by the white nationalists. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-houses-in-virginia-flip-from-r-to-d-and-kentucky-governor-too/843078/54 "2019-11-07T15:51:33Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > “Stivers said he thought Bevin’s speech declining to concede to Beshear was “appropriate.” He said believes most of the votes that went to Libertarian John Hicks, who received about 2% of the total vote, would have gone to Bevin and made him the clear winner.” > Izzat so? You know what Republicans should do? They should propose an election system where citizens get to _rank_ their _choices_ while _voting_. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-houses-in-virginia-flip-from-r-to-d-and-kentucky-governor-too/843078/55 "2019-11-07T16:59:19Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > You know what Republicans should do? They should propose an election system where citizens get to _rank_ their _choices_ while _voting_. Yes. There are probably better systems available to us – and they’re almost all better than first past the post – but RCV is a good first step. Approval voting, for example, would be a sensible way for a major political party to apply to its primary systems. Now, there are lots of obstacles to doing that, most notably that states control their own processes, but we’ll never do anything smart if we don’t start trying to at some point. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-houses-in-virginia-flip-from-r-to-d-and-kentucky-governor-too/843078/56 "2019-11-07T19:51:39Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > Should the result hold up, the impact of Bashear getting elected may be fairly limited. The legislature is still held by Republicans, and I read that the Governor’s veto can be overturned by a simply majority of legislators. I assume that the Kentucky legislature will follow the example of North Carolina when Roy Cooper was elected Governor and strip his office of as much power as they can. In a way, I kinda wouldn’t mind seeing the KY legislature steal the election from the Dems. It would be wildly unpopular and put all kinds of attention on the Republican party, which is really what needs to happen instead of fixating outrage on individuals. It’s the entire party that’s rotten to the core. Pulling that kind of stunt is only going to harden the resolve of Dems to bring more people out to the polls next time. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-houses-in-virginia-flip-from-r-to-d-and-kentucky-governor-too/843078/57 "2019-11-07T19:59:46Z")
Help me out, please - how, hypothetically, could the KY Legislature overturn the election results? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-houses-in-virginia-flip-from-r-to-d-and-kentucky-governor-too/843078/58 "2019-11-07T20:06:43Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Help me out, please - how, hypothetically, could the KY Legislature overturn the election results? 😕 From the link above: > [@](#): > > A candidate can file a formal election contest with the state legislature, but it must be filed within 30 days of the last action by the state board of elections. The state board is scheduled to certify the results of the race for governor on Nov. 25 this year. > > Under this contest, the candidate challenging the results must specify the grounds for the action, such as a violation of campaign finance rules or specific problems when it comes to how ballots were cast. > > Such an election contest is covered under Section 90 of the state constitution, which addresses a “contest of election for Governor or Lieutenant Governor.” > > Section 90 states: “ **Contested elections for Governor and Lieutenant Governor shall be determined by both Houses of the General Assembly** , according to such regulations as may be established by law.” ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-houses-in-virginia-flip-from-r-to-d-and-kentucky-governor-too/843078/59 "2019-11-07T20:15:57Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > So Donald threw a tantrum and held his breath until Kentucky turned blue. > > My takeaways: > The suburbs of Cincinnati and Louisville abandoned the Republican in Kentucky, suburban voters in Virginia did as well. I don’t see this as anything but good news for Democrats. If urban and suburban areas vote solidly blue, there simply aren’t enough rural voters to carry the day in states like OH, PA, MI, WI, and FL to save the day for any Republican nominee. We could be entering the golden age of Democratic rule. Until we get cocky or overconfident. > [@](#): > > Mississippi played true to form and it’s hard to see that state flipping in the next decade. I can see Texas and Georgia flipping ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-houses-in-virginia-flip-from-r-to-d-and-kentucky-governor-too/843078/60 "2019-11-07T20:18:56Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Absolutely. And let us further hope Virginia will pass serious, meaningful legislation addressing such issues and gun control, health care, infrastructure building, etc., that will show obvious benefits, that other states will take notice, and that my home state will be a leader in bringing the US into the 21st century. But I’m not overly optimistic. And THAT is how you lose a thin majority in the Virginia Senate. We won some of those seats by pretty slim margins. If you want to advance a progressive agenda, wait until after the redistricting passes muster. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-houses-in-virginia-flip-from-r-to-d-and-kentucky-governor-too/843078.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-houses-in-virginia-flip-from-r-to-d-and-kentucky-governor-too/843078.md?page=4)