# Both of the parties should die. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 17, 2010, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-of-the-parties-should-die/564565 "2010-12-17T22:15:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-of-the-parties-should-die/564565/21 "2010-12-18T05:06:40Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > You’re coming off like a cranky libertarian here. > [@silenus](#): > > Is there any other kind? We prefer to be called curmudgeonly libertarians, slightly right of center. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-of-the-parties-should-die/564565/22 "2010-12-18T05:29:15Z")
Cammacdon vs the World. The smart money’s on the world. Seriously, Cammacdon, do you think you’re the first person to figure out how the system works? And do you think you figuring it all out and denouncing it change anything? Sure politics is a game. But it’s the only game in town. If you want to accomplish anything in society you’ve got to play it. Doesn’t matter if you’re Gandhi or Hitler. Martin Luther King or Mao Zedong. If you want to get anything done you learn to play politics. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-of-the-parties-should-die/564565/23 "2010-12-18T06:14:45Z")
> [@Cammacdon](#): > > I never implied superiority, intellectual or otherwise. You pulled that assumption out of your ass. I stated facts, I’ve seen it proven over and over all my life. If you have a problem with reality i don’t know how to help you. Actually you made claims, unsubstantiated ones at that. There’s not much to respond to, because nobody is taking you seriously. Come back when you have an argument or at least are able to recognize one. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-of-the-parties-should-die/564565/24 "2010-12-18T07:35:24Z")
I think somebody got an early Christmas present of some Heinlein novels. Or maybe Ayn Rand. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-of-the-parties-should-die/564565/25 "2010-12-18T12:08:05Z")
> [@Cammacdon](#): > > I never implied superiority, intellectual or otherwise. You pulled that assumption out of your ass. I stated facts, I’ve seen it proven over and over all my life. If you have a problem with reality i don’t know how to help you. Your posts are dripping with implied superiority. Sure. You’ve got brains enough to refrain from saying “Respect my opinion for I am clearly your better!” but then you’re the only one who sees what is going on. You’re the only one who understands. You’re the only one who wants to discuss this maturely and has aged above age twelve. > [@](#): > > No one wants to discuss anything in a mature way. They just want to scream and cry and mock and joke. Reinforcing my belief that just about every person i meet in this ridiculous world never aged mentally past twelve. Yeah. No superiority there. Certainly not. Don’t know where anyone could have gotten that opinion. > [@](#): > > The funny thing is Zoid and Rachel, is that i don’t care nearly as much as you do. I merely state what i know to be fact. You don’t read it in books, and you don’t see it on television, But you can see it plenty merely through observation if you’re willing. I see the transparent greed of the aristocrats and the power mongering nanny mentality of the governments. I express those opinions and you want to attack me personally because you either don’t possess the ability to tell me why I am wrong, Or As i believe you don’t really care and are just looking for an excuse to belittle someone for god knows what reason. Nobody is trying to prove you wrong because your post is so profoundly stupid that to prove you wrong would be simple. For starters, your post is full of assumptions that cannot possible be proven as they rely upon your ability to read minds. For another one, you’re essentially saying that “all dogs are brown.” As soon as someone finds a politician that is not what you say he is, or a person who is not as you think all people are, your opinion (and it’s worth noting that what you are saying is your opinion and not a fact) is wrong. And then there is the tone of your posts, which most certainly do not imply that you want anything even resembling a discussion or that you have the ability to see your opinion as being wrong. “These are the facts and anyone who does not agree just isn’t seeing the world properly.” That just screams “I am open to the opinions of others and I am looking for a spirited yet civil debate.” In my opinion, you didn’t start this looking for a discussion or to find out if you were wrong. You didn’t want people to address your comedically weak arguments. You wanted to be mocked. You wanted people to not take you seriously. That way you wouldn’t have to back up your “facts” with actual evidence or reasons or anything. You get to keep your “facts” and feel even more superior because nobody would even attempt to prove you wrong because they totally couldn’t and you knew that the couldn’t anyway. I’ll sum up in case you’re feeling in a “tldr” mood today. You’re a douche. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-of-the-parties-should-die/564565/26 "2010-12-18T14:15:16Z")
> [@Cammacdon](#): > > I never implied superiority, intellectual or otherwise. > [@Cammacdon](#): > > Reinforcing my belief that just about every person i meet in this ridiculous world never aged mentally past twelve. Yeah, hard to imagine where anyone would have gotten the idea that you’ve put yourself up on a pedestal. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-of-the-parties-should-die/564565/27 "2010-12-18T21:11:02Z")
> [@Cammacdon](#): > > Growing up is a state of mind that comes naturally when one casts aside all the myths and delusions of childhood and accepts reality for what it is, what you see, what you hear,touch,taste and smell, and not what you want it to be. And sure as hell not what some other person wants you to believe. “Growing up is when you decide you agree with me! So until you agree that I’m right, you’re all children!” Also, you forgot to use the word ‘sheeple’. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-of-the-parties-should-die/564565/28 "2010-12-18T21:23:45Z")
So, **Cammacdon** , whaddaya want for Christmas? > [@Meyer6](#): > > Also, you forgot to use the word ‘sheeple’. > [@Cammacdon](#): > > Wake up people. Close enough. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-of-the-parties-should-die/564565/29 "2010-12-19T04:50:58Z")
Sheeple. Sheeple. Sheeeeeeeeple. Shee-pulll. Sheeple. It’s starting to sound like some kind of meat pastry from the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-of-the-parties-should-die/564565/30 "2010-12-19T05:44:57Z")
Said the lawyer to the couple. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-of-the-parties-should-die/564565/31 "2010-12-19T20:41:54Z")
> [@Cammacdon](#): > > The constant squabbling between these two camps proves nothing beyond the fact that this civilization of ours is nothing but a sadistic joke. Its a sham, a fraud. Man is still tribal and primitive and trading in dried chicken bones and loin cloths for business suits and computers doesn’t change a damn thing. Then again, maybe it just means that in something as highly complex as government/politics, there are many issues and priorities and interests and even fundamental values on which reasonable minds can disagree. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-of-the-parties-should-die/564565/32 "2010-12-19T20:48:27Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Hey, this is me. I’ve spent the last month or so in “cranky anti-republican monarchist” mode, & I used to be an anarchist. I can understand where the OP is coming from. Try the [Royalist Party of America.](http://www.angelfire.com/ex2/royalisttn/aboutus.html) Come to think of it, the Imperial Throne of the United States is vacant, and has been ever since the passing of our lamented sovereign [Norton I](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Norton) in 1880. Long enough! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-of-the-parties-should-die/564565/33 "2010-12-19T20:50:47Z")
> [@Cammacdon](#): > > The funny thing is Zoid and Rachel, is that i don’t care nearly as much as you do. Then why bother proposing your thesis for debate? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-of-the-parties-should-die/564565/34 "2010-12-19T21:01:16Z")
The problem is not the parties being alike. They have to be, because they both have to beg for money, from the same rich people, to run campaigns. The only hope is campaign finance reform. But the powerful will not allow that. They can buy the politicians and force them to vote in their behalf. Why would they give that up? Public financing would allow the politicians to do their jobs instead of spending so much time fund raising. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-of-the-parties-should-die/564565/35 "2010-12-19T21:46:36Z")
As I always say; _Republicans, right arm. Democrats, left arm. Same Monster._ ---
**Author:** ![randy054](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/54ee81/32.png) [@randy054](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randy054)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-of-the-parties-should-die/564565/36 "2010-12-20T01:16:57Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The problem is not the parties being alike. They have to be, because they both have to beg for money, from the same rich people, to run campaigns. T **he only hope is campaign finance reform. But the powerful will not allow that.** They can buy the politicians and force them to vote in their behalf. Why would they give that up? > Public financing would allow the politicians to do their jobs instead of spending so much time fund raising. Well said Gonzo. That will never change without an actual physical bloodbath. The banksters and megacorps think those positions are too important to leave to the pleebs. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-of-the-parties-should-die/564565/37 "2010-12-20T01:35:39Z")
> [@Cammacdon](#): > > Man is still tribal and primitive and trading in dried chicken bones and loin cloths for business suits and computers doesn’t change a damn thing. Right there you’ve nailed 80% of politics - tribal instinct, affiliating with groups you consider peers, and status posturing. (The rest is naked self-interest.) And it’s old as dirt: > [@](#): > > In the time of the Roman Empire, civic life was divided between the Blue and Green factions. The Blues and the Greens murdered each other in single combats, in ambushes, in group battles, in riots. Procopius said of the warring factions: “So there grows up in them against their fellow men a hostility which has no cause, and at no time does it cease or disappear, for it gives place neither to the ties of marriage nor of relationship nor of friendship, and the case is the same even though those who differ with respect to these colors be brothers or any other kin.” Edward Gibbon wrote: “The support of a faction became necessary to every candidate for civil or ecclesiastical honors.” > > Who were the Blues and the Greens? They were sports fans - the partisans of the blue and green chariot-racing teams. [This](http://lesswrong.com/lw/gt/a_fable_of_science_and_politics/) is a lovely take on political tribalism. Show’s over, noble activists - now go and do something productive. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-of-the-parties-should-die/564565/38 "2010-12-20T02:13:29Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Try the [Royalist Party of America.](http://www.angelfire.com/ex2/royalisttn/aboutus.html) > > Come to think of it, the Imperial Throne of the United States is vacant, and has been ever since the passing of our lamented sovereign [Norton I](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Norton) in 1880. Long enough! I find the RPA twee. And Norton was a mild-mannered emperor, I’m not sure who has the qualities to pull that off now. ---
**Author:** ![pikey\_pete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pikey\_pete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pikey_pete)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-of-the-parties-should-die/564565/39 "2010-12-20T02:30:28Z")
Vote for Anarchy!!!(snicker snicker snicker) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-of-the-parties-should-die/564565/40 "2010-12-20T05:16:31Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > As I always say; > > _Republicans, right arm. > Democrats, left arm. > Same Monster._ And the third arm? 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-of-the-parties-should-die/564565.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-of-the-parties-should-die/564565.md?page=3)