# "Both sides are the same!" is a dogmatic position immune from facts **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 15, 2017, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-sides-are-the-same-is-a-dogmatic-position-immune-from-facts/793743 "2017-08-15T20:58:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-sides-are-the-same-is-a-dogmatic-position-immune-from-facts/793743/21 "2017-08-15T22:50:08Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I remember when Obama first won the nomination, before many people knew anything about him, people were shouting “he’s a muslim!” and other such things. During one of his first primary ads, I was sitting in a bar - a bar in a not particularly red area or country themed or anything - and someone shouted out “kill him!” - this was summer 2007. People already felt comfortable in mixed company to yell “kill him!” at a guy who had done nothing but made some inspiring speeches. > > And when I mentioned on these boards and other places how the hatred for him was completely disproportionate to anything we’ve seen since, other people said “nu uh! People said bad stuff about Bush!” > > But they were comparing Bush, the guy who lied to create a war in which millions were killed or displaced in order to try to fulfill biblical prophecy to destroy the world (yes, this is actually true, though not widely known) to a guy who’d done nothing in the public eye but be inspiring and positive. Both sides are the same, you see. Yelling “kill him!” at summer 2007 Obama is the same as holding up “Bush kills babies” signs after 5 years in Iraq apparently. > > People generally criticized Bush for what he did, or what he was. Did he get called stupid a lot? Sure, he was one of the least eloquent presidents we’ve ever had. Did he get criticized for being a war monger? Sure, he deserved it. Obama got an even bigger mass of hate directed at him for … existing. > > Straw man. I didn’t say there were moral requirements. I’m saying that anyone with half a brain can see he is entirely unsuitable. But the people who like him aren’t the sort of people who can support him in an open, intellectual debate. Maybe they all circle jerk each other in the Fox News comments section, I don’t know. But defending Trump is untenable position here just as defending the idea that 9/11 was an inside job is untenable. Some sizable minority of Americans believe 9/11 was a conspiracy, but almost no one on the SDMB - does that mean we’re an echo chamber, or that this is a place where obviously untenable ideas sink away? Start convincing these folks. > **[2016 presidential election results](https://www.cnn.com/election/2016/results/president)** > > Full results by state for the 2016 presidential election and electoral vote count. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-sides-are-the-same-is-a-dogmatic-position-immune-from-facts/793743/22 "2017-08-15T22:57:20Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Walk us through this. Walk us through how the fight over Bork was a continuous change rather than isolated incident decades before the current radicalization of politics. Show us anything as deliberate and continuous as the 1990s house through Fox News through Trump. “Us?” Who else besides you is asking? The 1990s were dominated by the Clinton presidency, so it’s slightly more difficult to find Democratic excess targeted at Republicans; the natural lightning rod is the President. But sure. In the 1980s, The Nation’s columnists called George Schultz “demented” and “rabid,” over the bombing of Libya. The publication also compared Reagan to George Wallace’s “I will not be out-n\*\*\*ered,” by proclaiming that Reagan would not be “out-colored.” And Richard Cohen wrote: > [@](#): > > Bork, the intellectual, anguished over the rights of proprietors. Reagan, no intellectual, nevertheless struck the same note: even bigots “have certain constitutional rights.” Not since John Steinbeck teamed George with Lenny have two such intellectually disparate people found such common cause. > [@](#): > > Ah, “before”, not “as much as” - so all you have to do is point towards a single irrational criticism of Bush and that negates the ridiculous amount of shit directed at Obama. One person says Bush is a monkey in 2000, and it’s totally the same thing as Obama received. Bush was subjected to considerably more vitriol than one person calling him a monkey. Look at this board and do a search on “Shurb,” or “smirk.” > [@](#): > > I’ve heard science-literate boards described as an “echo chamber” because they convincingly destroy the arguments of “global warming is a hoax” types. Is that because science is an echo chamber, or because in an open discussion with knowledgable people the ignorant get destroyed? Is that an argument directed at me? Are you asking me to defend statements I never made and don’t endorse? Perhaps, then, you and I can compare records. Would you say I’ve ever leveled a name-calling insult against a Democratic national politician? Have you? > [@](#): > > There is no rational, informed reason to think that Donald Trump is a suitable president. So is it so surprising that people who try to be informed on politics almost uniformly reject Trump? Is that evidence of an echo chamber, or simply the case that where informed, rational discussion wins out, certain positions are naturally defeated? How do 9/11 truthers do around here? Are we an “official story” echo chamber? I don’t support Trump myself, so I’m not the best messenger of the views of those that do. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-sides-are-the-same-is-a-dogmatic-position-immune-from-facts/793743/23 "2017-08-15T22:58:12Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Start convincing these folks. > > [Presidential Election Results 2016](http://www.cnn.com/election/results/president) Your points are irrelevant to what I’m saying. I’m not in denial that Trump was elected president. I have no idea what straw man you think you’re attacking. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-sides-are-the-same-is-a-dogmatic-position-immune-from-facts/793743/24 "2017-08-15T23:02:54Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > … this is a place where obviously untenable ideas sink away? I believe the answer to this is a firm “no”, and your own post provides the evidence: > [@SenorBeef](#): > > … Bush, the guy who lied to create a war in which millions were killed or displaced in order to try to fulfill biblical prophecy to destroy the world (yes, this is actually true, though not widely known) … ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-sides-are-the-same-is-a-dogmatic-position-immune-from-facts/793743/25 "2017-08-15T23:06:27Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If Abe Fortas was alive, I’m sure he’d be happy to hear there was no partisanship over Supreme Court appointments before 1987. Fortas’ opposition was not primarily partisan in nature. 10 Republicans and 35 Democrats voted for cloture; 24 Republicans and 19 Democrats voted against cloture. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-sides-are-the-same-is-a-dogmatic-position-immune-from-facts/793743/26 "2017-08-15T23:09:56Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Your points are irrelevant to what I’m saying. Right, you were lauding your ability to reach factual conclusions and not lob incendiary non-factual vitriol at politicians your party opposes. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > But they were comparing Bush, the guy who lied to create a war in which millions were killed or displaced **in order to try to fulfill biblical prophecy to destroy the world (yes, this is actually true, though not widely known)** to a guy who’d done nothing in the public eye but be inspiring and positive. Do go on. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-sides-are-the-same-is-a-dogmatic-position-immune-from-facts/793743/27 "2017-08-15T23:11:12Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Your points are irrelevant to what I’m saying. I’m not in denial that Trump was elected president. I have no idea what straw man you think you’re attacking. Hmm. Misusing the term. Ah well. Define suitable for president in a democracy? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-sides-are-the-same-is-a-dogmatic-position-immune-from-facts/793743/28 "2017-08-15T23:16:47Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Start convincing these folks. > > [Presidential Election Results 2016](http://www.cnn.com/election/results/president) And you would have us believe that if Clinton had been elected you would have posted on this board that you found her suitable? :dubious::dubious: ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-sides-are-the-same-is-a-dogmatic-position-immune-from-facts/793743/29 "2017-08-15T23:23:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And you would have us believe that if Clinton had been elected you would have posted on this board that you found her suitable? :dubious::dubious: Dubious all you like. I thought Bill, W, and Obama were suitable. I thought Clinton was flawed and not my first choice but obviously suitable. ---
**Author:** ![etasyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9f8e36/32.png) [@etasyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etasyde)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-sides-are-the-same-is-a-dogmatic-position-immune-from-facts/793743/30 "2017-08-15T23:24:32Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Hmm. Misusing the term. Ah well. > > Define suitable for president in a democracy? How about elected by an actual majority of voters? Losing by _millions_ but “winning” because we want white votes to matter more than minority votes (which is what the Electoral College _does_) can hardly be called a democracy. Ethnocracy perhaps, but Democracy? Don’t make me puke. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-sides-are-the-same-is-a-dogmatic-position-immune-from-facts/793743/31 "2017-08-15T23:29:57Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > But they were comparing Bush, the guy who lied to create a war in which millions were killed or displaced in order to try to fulfill biblical prophecy to destroy the world (yes, this is actually true, though not widely known)… It has been my experience that CTs are generally “true, though not widely known”. Please do yourself and you cause a favor by not propagating stuff like this. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-sides-are-the-same-is-a-dogmatic-position-immune-from-facts/793743/32 "2017-08-15T23:46:54Z")
I do believe that Democratic _elected officials_ are, by and large, more reasonable, less obstructionist, and willing to work across the aisle than Republican elected officials as a whole. But when it comes to the red and blue \*voters \*- well, no, plenty of people in both camps are downright frightening. I believe that most of them are, deep down, driven by the same stamp-the-other-side-out-of-existence motivation as the other. I truly believe with all sincerity that many red and blue voters would happily resort to tyrannical, maybe even murderous, means to wipe each other out, if the powder keg’s fuse was ever lit. Reading Internet comment sections from both sides alike often leaves little hope for democracy. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-sides-are-the-same-is-a-dogmatic-position-immune-from-facts/793743/33 "2017-08-15T23:58:16Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Right, you were lauding your ability to reach factual conclusions and not lob incendiary non-factual vitriol at politicians your party opposes. What does this have to do with my dismissal of him basically saying “scoreboard!” in an irrelevant attempt to refute something he thought I said? > [@](#): > > Do go on. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > It has been my experience that CTs are generally “true, though not widely known”. Please do yourself and you cause a favor by not propagating stuff like this. I tried digging into this one a little bit but I’m not sure there’s a conclusive answer. I think I originally read it in [The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2009/aug/10/religion-george-bush), which is not exactly Alex Jones. According to [this](http://bigthink.com/strange-maps/gog-and-magog-or-dubyas-biblical-mind-map), Chirac called the University of Lausanne to get someone knowledgeable about the Bible to decipher what Chirac claimed Bush said, which is documented in their university magazine in 2007. Chirac apparently reaffirmed the story in an interview published in [this book](https://www.amazon.fr/Si-vous-r%C3%A9p%C3%A9tez-d%C3%A9mentirai-Villepin/dp/225921021X), but I can’t find a translation. As far as I can tell, Chirac claims that this was said on a conversation to him, and there is a record of him calling a university to get more information about “gog and magog”, which supports the claim. There’s no recording or other documented proof. But it does seem plausible for a guy that said he personally talks to god to make decisions - why not? That said, it’s not really relevant to the conversation here. I’d be happy to pretend I never said it. My point was that Bush had done things by that point to deserve criticism and hatred - he created a war based on lies (whether he did it as a religious nutjob isn’t necessary to criticize him) and as such, the hatred for him after the war and the hatred for summer 2007 Obama are not the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-sides-are-the-same-is-a-dogmatic-position-immune-from-facts/793743/34 "2017-08-15T23:59:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Right, you were lauding your ability to reach factual conclusions and not lob incendiary non-factual vitriol at politicians your party opposes. > > Do go on. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > It has been my experience that CTs are generally “true, though not widely known”. Please do yourself and you cause a favor by not propagating stuff like this. BTW, SenorBeef, just in case you try and “prove” your assertion, here is the [“counter proof”](https://www.yahoo.com/news/bush-chirac-war-iraq-222849521.html). First hand reporting from someone who was actually there. So no, your assertion is not “true” regardless of how widely known or unknown it is. It has been reported, yes. Verified? No way. And let me just add that I’m pretty much in agreement with the overall thesis you are driving here. My sense is that the GOP is much worse at these things than the Democrats are. Not that you can’t find individual instances that match up pretty close on the different sides, but there is no comparison in terms of the “quality”, quantity, and the level of the source for such things on the GOP side. But it’s one of those things that is so hard to prove, and so divided itself along party lines that it’s hardly worth the effort to argue about. No one is going to change his mind. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-sides-are-the-same-is-a-dogmatic-position-immune-from-facts/793743/35 "2017-08-16T00:06:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Fortas’ opposition was not primarily partisan in nature. 10 Republicans and 35 Democrats voted for cloture; 24 Republicans and 19 Democrats voted against cloture. Whereas Bork’s nomination was strictly partisan, with no Republican voting against, and no Democrats voting in favor? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-sides-are-the-same-is-a-dogmatic-position-immune-from-facts/793743/36 "2017-08-16T00:08:52Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It has been my experience that CTs are generally “true, though not widely known”. Please do yourself and you cause a favor by not propagating stuff like this. Well, regarding the lies, VOX makes a good roundup of the main ones on the way to the Iraq invasion: > **[No, really, George W. Bush lied about WMDs](https://www.vox.com/2016/7/9/12123022/george-w-bush-lies-iraq-war)** > > Vox is a general interest news site for the 21st century. Its mission: to help everyone understand our complicated world, so that we can all help shape it. In text, video and audio, our reporters explain politics, policy, world affairs, technology,... As for using the bible as part of the justification, there were credible reports from the French and others were Bush let that out: Read more at [http://www.patheos.com/blogs/kermitzarleyblog/2013/04/did-president-george-w-bush-use-the-bible-in-deciding-that-the-u-s-attack-iraq/#5euKtIqPKZjjWKPB.99](http://www.patheos.com/blogs/kermitzarleyblog/2013/04/did-president-george-w-bush-use-the-bible-in-deciding-that-the-u-s-attack-iraq/#5euKtIqPKZjjWKPB.99) > [@](#): > > Early in 2003, President George W. Bush made a remark on the telephone to France’s President Jacques Chirac about “Gog and Magog” in the Bible. That probably is why Tamerlan Tsarvaev made his above remark. This phone call occurred only weeks before the U.S.-led coalition invaded Iraq. Bush was trying to convince Chirac to have France join the UN-approved coalition, but Chirac was adamantly refusing. Bush then further explained that “in the Middle East” he saw “Gog and Magog at work.” President Chirac was shocked and wondered how anyone could be of such a strange mindset. > > This Bush-Chirac phone call was first reported by Jocelyn Rochaton on September 10, 2007, thus four years later, in France’s magazine Allez Savoir! Lately, journalists have been claiming that this episode was very under-reported. Others later did contradict the reports, but not citing directly, so IMHO one can make the argument that there is doubt about it nowadays, but I have not seen the original reporters backing down from what was said then. Bottom line: **SenorBeef** is not inventing that, nor it was a CT. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-sides-are-the-same-is-a-dogmatic-position-immune-from-facts/793743/37 "2017-08-16T00:13:15Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > What does this have to do with my dismissal of him basically saying “scoreboard!” in an irrelevant attempt to refute something he thought I said? > > I tried digging into this one a little bit but I’m not sure there’s a conclusive answer. I think I originally read it in [The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2009/aug/10/religion-george-bush), which is not exactly Alex Jones. According to [this](http://bigthink.com/strange-maps/gog-and-magog-or-dubyas-biblical-mind-map), Chirac called the University of Lausanne to get someone knowledgeable about the Bible to decipher what Chirac claimed Bush said, which is documented in their university magazine in 2007. Chirac apparently reaffirmed the story in an interview published in [this book](https://www.amazon.fr/Si-vous-r%C3%A9p%C3%A9tez-d%C3%A9mentirai-Villepin/dp/225921021X), but I can’t find a translation. > > As far as I can tell, Chirac claims that this was said on a conversation to him, and there is a record of him calling a university to get more information about “gog and magog”, which supports the claim. There’s no recording or other documented proof. But it does seem plausible for a guy that said he personally talks to god to make decisions - why not? > > That said, it’s not really relevant to the conversation here. I’d be happy to pretend I never said it. My point was that Bush had done things by that point to deserve criticism and hatred - he created a war based on lies (whether he did it as a religious nutjob isn’t necessary to criticize him) and as such, the hatred for him after the war and the hatred for summer 2007 Obama are not the same thing. OK, I feel much better now. 🙂 But I think you’re missing the point. It’s not that terrible, but true things were said about Bush. Yes, many terrible, but true things were said about him. But many untrue things were said about him, as well, in addition to the partisan sniping (like constantly calling hime “Shrub” or whatever). Yes, lots of folks thought Obama would cancel elections-- and lots of folks thought Bush would, too. People called Obama “Hitler”-- and people called Bush “Hitler”, too. People even claimed Bush’s Texas accent was fake. You’re hardly going to win the argument by comparing how Bush and Obama were treated by the folks on the ground in either side of the debate. It’s more about the party as a whole, and actions and statements made by members in Congress. On that, I don’t doubt that “the GOP is worse”. I can’t even bring myself to trust the good ones anymore, because they get swamped out by the not so good ones, and they don’t fight back nearly hard enough. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-sides-are-the-same-is-a-dogmatic-position-immune-from-facts/793743/38 "2017-08-16T00:36:05Z")
> [@etasyde](#): > > How about elected by an actual majority of voters? > > Losing by _millions_ but “winning” because we want white votes to matter more than minority votes (which is what the Electoral College _does_) can hardly be called a democracy. Ethnocracy perhaps, but Democracy? Don’t make me puke. Well, work to get an amendment passed. President Trump won the game he played. And you obviously don’t know much about the Electoral College. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-sides-are-the-same-is-a-dogmatic-position-immune-from-facts/793743/39 "2017-08-16T00:38:01Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I do believe that Democratic _elected officials_ are, by and large, more reasonable, less obstructionist, and willing to work across the aisle than Republican elected officials as a whole. > But when it comes to the red and blue \*voters \*- well, no, plenty of people in both camps are downright frightening. I believe that most of them are, deep down, driven by the same stamp-the-other-side-out-of-existence motivation as the other. I truly believe with all sincerity that many red and blue voters would happily resort to tyrannical, maybe even murderous, means to wipe each other out, if the powder keg’s fuse was ever lit. Reading Internet comment sections from both sides alike often leaves little hope for democracy. You can witness that in the Pit with the calls to barely veiled calls to violence there. It’s extraordinarily disappointing how hypocritical support for fundamental rights really is. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-sides-are-the-same-is-a-dogmatic-position-immune-from-facts/793743/40 "2017-08-16T00:41:35Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Whereas Bork’s nomination was strictly partisan, with no Republican voting against, and no Democrats voting in favor? Bork’s non-partisan votes were single digits: the 42 yes votes were 40 Republicans and 2 Democrats, and the no votes 52 Democrats and 6 Republicans. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-sides-are-the-same-is-a-dogmatic-position-immune-from-facts/793743.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/both-sides-are-the-same-is-a-dogmatic-position-immune-from-facts/793743.md?page=3)