# Botticelli - October 2015 **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [October 1, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/botticelli-october-2015/733156 "2015-10-01T16:53:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/botticelli-october-2015/733156/381 "2015-10-23T22:50:03Z")
IQs: 1. Were you an Apache leader who lead a revolt against the U.S. government? 2. Are you the Muse of History? 3. Were you the SDMB Member who bit me in the Zombie attack of 2013, turning me into the Severed Head of Prof. Pepperwinkle? ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/botticelli-october-2015/733156/382 "2015-10-23T23:42:11Z")
> [@](#): > > IQ1: Were you groomed for optimism by Professor Pangloss? > IQ2: Are you a Discordian anarchist who fights the Illuminati from your golden submarine, the Lief Ericson? > IQ3: Are you one of the Thundercats? > > Not Candide. > DQ: > DQ. correct, Hagbard Celine, Cheetara DQ: Crime/Mystery genre? holding 2 DQs ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/botticelli-october-2015/733156/383 "2015-10-24T01:14:19Z")
American and known only by one name is an odd combo. DQ: Did you appear mostly in urban settings? Holding 2 DQ. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/botticelli-october-2015/733156/384 "2015-10-24T03:21:21Z")
Previous IQs: Did you marry your first cousin, who worried about your soul? - Yes, Charles Darwin. Were you the first to fly across America, “crash by crash”? - Cal Rodgers: [Calbraith Perry Rodgers - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calbraith_Perry_Rodgers) Were you the Finch family’s cook and house servant? - Calpurnia, in _To Kill A Mockingbird_ and _Go Set A Watchman_. DQs: Appeared in only a single book? Most associated with a locale west of the Miss. River? ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/botticelli-october-2015/733156/385 "2015-10-24T03:52:35Z")
Define _literature_, please. ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/botticelli-october-2015/733156/386 "2015-10-24T12:30:38Z")
IQ1: Are you referred to only as Captain? ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/botticelli-october-2015/733156/387 "2015-10-24T12:41:39Z")
Literature: written works with aesthetic merit. Does include genre fiction, such as mysteries or science fiction, does not include scripts from TV or movies, comic books, advertising, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/botticelli-october-2015/733156/388 "2015-10-24T13:19:54Z")
So, under Prof’s definition, poetry would be literature? ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/botticelli-october-2015/733156/389 "2015-10-24T13:30:28Z")
Or the subject of a song? ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/botticelli-october-2015/733156/390 "2015-10-24T13:37:59Z")
Oh. I had taken literature to mean the classics. I didn’t realize it included genres, as I didn’t consider most genre to be in classic territory. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/botticelli-october-2015/733156/391 "2015-10-24T16:46:02Z")
Feel free to disagree and provide another definition. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/botticelli-october-2015/733156/392 "2015-10-24T18:04:49Z")
I always assumed literature was any published fiction, excluding poetry. Then we narrow down by year, author, genre, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/botticelli-october-2015/733156/393 "2015-10-24T18:34:21Z")
For purposes of the current game, shouldn’t KO’s definition be used, as he was the one who asked that particular DQ? ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/botticelli-october-2015/733156/394 "2015-10-24T18:41:51Z")
I’d like SCAdian’s take on it. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/botticelli-october-2015/733156/395 "2015-10-24T19:18:13Z")
To me, “literature” is prose fiction - novels, short stores, &c. For casual use, such as in this game, I would include all genres; more formally, such as at a library or a bookstore, I wouldn’t. I would also include epic poetry, such as the Iliad or the Mahabharata, but not Frost, Kipling, or other “popular” poetry. And as indicated, I would exclude non-fiction. Wikipedia, on the other hand, is more inclusive: > [@](#): > > … it is writing that possesses literary merit, and language that foregrounds literariness, as opposed to ordinary language. Literature can be classified according to whether it is fiction or non-fiction and whether it is poetry or prose; it can be further distinguished according to major forms such as the novel, short story or drama; and works are often categorised according to historical periods or their adherence to certain aesthetic features or expectations (genre). I think it would be good to establish an “official” definition for game purposes of what is or is not “Literature” before continuing… ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/botticelli-october-2015/733156/396 "2015-10-24T20:44:27Z")
from Merriam-Webster: > [@](#): > > written works (such as poems, plays, and novels) that are considered to be very good and to have lasting importance Sounds good to me. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/botticelli-october-2015/733156/397 "2015-10-24T21:02:00Z")
Sounds very imprecise to me. Your idea of “very good” and “lasting importance” my be very different from EH’s or KO’s. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/botticelli-october-2015/733156/398 "2015-10-24T21:13:50Z")
“written works (such as poems, plays, and novels) that are critically acclaimed and taught in schools” ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/botticelli-october-2015/733156/399 "2015-10-24T21:26:50Z")
How about we never ask “From literature” again? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/botticelli-october-2015/733156/400 "2015-10-24T21:54:19Z")
Somewhat metagaming, in one extreme we could have the host answering the question as asked literally with no clarification, using their own definitions again with no explanation. This can be problematic as the questioners can get way off course, and it may be less fun that way. (sometimes a ‘yes and no’ response or a response of mu may be needed with this ruleset) The other extreme is one we are close to, where the host provides lots more information then true and false by ‘clarifying’. When the game is close to the first extreme, best strategy is to make DQs well formed such that it will be obvious to both sides what a response of ‘true’ and a response of ‘false’ means. If the question is ambiguous, the questioners will get unhelpful or misleading responses, but in such an environment that would be considered their fault. Our status quo rewards asking DQs as vague as possible, because we’ll get extra info when the host adds a bunch of extra non-binary info. The literal response to last name start with C for someone with one name would be a flat “yes”, but we give bonus information by local convention. I like type 2 in moderation, but sometimes I feel like our DQs go too far in the vagueness route to exploit it and get extra info. I would prefer it if we tried to keep the DQs more clear but still allowed the host to be gracious with extra information. On the ‘literature’ definition: pick any one, use it, and get on with the game would be my preference. To just tell us whatever definition you were internally using when you made the ‘from literature’ response a while ago would be fine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/botticelli-october-2015/733156.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/botticelli-october-2015/733156.md?page=21)