# Bounty Killer, Elephant Man, TOK & Other Artists CDs BANNED in Brighton UK **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 1, 2004, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bounty-killer-elephant-man-tok-other-artists-cds-banned-in-brighton-uk/277426 "2004-12-01T01:36:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2004, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bounty-killer-elephant-man-tok-other-artists-cds-banned-in-brighton-uk/277426/61 "2004-12-06T10:09:57Z")
> [@owlstretchingtime](#): > > What he says is complete balls. The man’s a grade one wanker and cockmonger. This is true. What makes us better than those dancehall berks is that we don’t actually want him dead for his general all-round tossery. > > Ignore him and he’ll go away. Ignore him and he’ll scream louder about the bigotry and prejudice you’re showing by ignoring him. My ears hurt enough already from his shrillness, thanks all the same. Besides, working on the principle that I’d rather be dead than be like Tatchell, killing him could be construed as an attempt to improve his lot in life. We would be proven superior to him by killing him, as we would be selflessly working to benefit mankind while he seeks only to drag others down to his level. That’s my story, anyway, and I’m sticking to it. 😃 > [@](#): > > I find this works for all Labour party candidates. I’ve been trying that since 1997. We still have Bush’s Lapdog in Number 10, so it appears not to be working. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2004, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bounty-killer-elephant-man-tok-other-artists-cds-banned-in-brighton-uk/277426/62 "2004-12-06T10:12:14Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > “Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech” is a pretty clear directive. Hasn’t stopped it being regularly abused, infringed and sometimes outright violated, though, has it? ---
**Author:** ![amphibian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@amphibian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amphibian)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2004, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bounty-killer-elephant-man-tok-other-artists-cds-banned-in-brighton-uk/277426/63 "2004-12-06T18:28:39Z")
> [@Evil Death](#): > > Have you actually heard what Tatchell is saying? I have. Hmm, I don’t have to meet someone to change my position on their right to life, funnily enough. This is a fairly ridiculous discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Aagramn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Aagramn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aagramn)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2004, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bounty-killer-elephant-man-tok-other-artists-cds-banned-in-brighton-uk/277426/64 "2004-12-06T19:10:18Z")
[QUOTE=Blalron] That’s a staggering number. [QUOTE] It’s shoking, but sadly gay rights are not very advanced in large parts of the world. This is why some people are so angry about these lyrics. Unlike, say, Eminem, they speak more of real attitudes and violence than posturing. I’m suprised to see the free speech argument trotted out with such confidence. Yes, it’s an important right, but it’s not an absolute right which trumps all others. It can and does _directly conflict_ with other rights. I don’t personally believe that free speech should cover defamation, hate speech or incitement to commit violence. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bounty-killer-elephant-man-tok-other-artists-cds-banned-in-brighton-uk/277426/65 "2004-12-07T05:44:35Z")
[QUOTE=Aagramn] [QUOTE=Blalron] That’s a staggering number. > [@](#): > > It’s shoking, but sadly gay rights are not very advanced in large parts of the world. This is why some people are so angry about these lyrics. Unlike, say, Eminem, they speak more of real attitudes and violence than posturing. > > I’m suprised to see the free speech argument trotted out with such confidence. Yes, it’s an important right, but it’s not an absolute right which trumps all others. Freedom of speech doesn’t just mean speech we agree with, it means protecting even the speech that we despise. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bounty-killer-elephant-man-tok-other-artists-cds-banned-in-brighton-uk/277426/66 "2004-12-07T10:16:54Z")
> [@Aagramn](#): > > I’m suprised to see the free speech argument trotted out with such confidence. Yes, it’s an important right, but it’s not an absolute right which trumps all others. It can and does _directly conflict_ with other rights. Really? Which ones? ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bounty-killer-elephant-man-tok-other-artists-cds-banned-in-brighton-uk/277426/67 "2004-12-07T14:07:56Z")
> [@Evil Death](#): > > Really? Which ones? The right not to be called a poof or a nigger? (only one of these is actually illegal). The right to walk around witthout worrying that some retarded teenager wants to beat you up to prove that he is a red-blooded straight because some know-nothing yardie wannabe has told him that this is what proper straight men do? You can bet your bottom dollar that plums like Bounty Killer would discover that their fondness for “free speech” pretty much evaporarted if other cheese-whistles were allowed to say what they think of blacks, jamaicans and indeed; cheese-whistles. ---
**Author:** ![Aagramn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Aagramn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aagramn)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bounty-killer-elephant-man-tok-other-artists-cds-banned-in-brighton-uk/277426/68 "2004-12-07T23:13:00Z")
> [@Evil Death](#): > > Really? Which ones? If I use my freedom of speech to threaten you or tell lies about you would you not say I was infringing your rights? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bounty-killer-elephant-man-tok-other-artists-cds-banned-in-brighton-uk/277426/69 "2004-12-08T01:20:24Z")
> [@Aagramn](#): > > If I use my freedom of speech to threaten you or tell lies about you would you not say I was infringing your rights? Depends what you call “rights”. As far as I am concerned, my rights are as follows: [ul] [li]I have the right to pursue the religion and sexuality of my choice, so long as I harm no other in the process.[/li][li]I have the right to freedom of expression.[/li][li]I have the right to freedom of movement.[/li][li]I have the right to personal privacy.[/li][li]I have the right to physical wellbeing.[/li][/ul] Your threats do not infringe on any of these rights unless you act on them or you continually harass me. Your lies do not infringe on any of these rights unless you slander or libel me. In all cases, you will have committed a crime above and beyond “hateful speech”. So no, I do not believe that anything you say can in and of itself infringe upon my rights. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bounty-killer-elephant-man-tok-other-artists-cds-banned-in-brighton-uk/277426/70 "2004-12-08T03:31:42Z")
Once the government has the power to ban one type of hate speech, it’s a slippery slope. There’s a [Religious Hatred Bill](http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=590467) that the English Parliament is considering. Who knows what other subjects of discussion will go on the chopping block next if it offends enough people. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bounty-killer-elephant-man-tok-other-artists-cds-banned-in-brighton-uk/277426/71 "2004-12-08T09:35:09Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > There’s a [Religious Hatred Bill](http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=590467) that the English Parliament is considering. I’ll stop you right there. That Bill is so toothless as to be obscene. According to Blunkett, it won’t prevent you saying anything that could provoke prejudice or hatred. Hitler’s anti-Semitic rants would be perfectly acceptable under this Bill, as would everything short of actual commands to go out and harm people. ---
**Author:** ![Aagramn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Aagramn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aagramn)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bounty-killer-elephant-man-tok-other-artists-cds-banned-in-brighton-uk/277426/72 "2004-12-08T19:23:27Z")
> [@Evil Death](#): > > …Your lies do not infringe on any of these rights unless you slander or libel me. So clearly there are things I could say which infringe your rights. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bounty-killer-elephant-man-tok-other-artists-cds-banned-in-brighton-uk/277426/73 "2004-12-08T23:55:06Z")
> [@Aagramn](#): > > So clearly there are things I could say which infringe your rights. But there is nothing you can say which will infringe my rights _because it is hateful_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bounty-killer-elephant-man-tok-other-artists-cds-banned-in-brighton-uk/277426.md?page=3)