# Bourbon Drinkers: A Question **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** liquor-alcohol\ **Created:** [December 5, 2010, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bourbon-drinkers-a-question/563001 "2010-12-05T04:26:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ruby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/13edae/32.png) [@Ruby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruby)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2010, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bourbon-drinkers-a-question/563001/1 "2010-12-05T04:26:19Z")
I’m still a novice bourbon drinker but I’ve never had this happen before and wonder if I did something wrong. I ordered a “Makers Mark, neat”. To me, that means the bourbon is served without ice in an old-fashioned cocktail glass. The server said, “um, you mean straight up?” I replied, “Well, yes, same as “on the rocks” but without the ice.” She brought me a shot glass of bourbon. A shot glass? I sent it back and again repeated my order. The server said, “so, you want a double?” We were interrupted by the owner of the restaurant and the server left without any further conversation. A few minutes later she brought me the damn drink in the right glass. I’ve never been served bourbon in a shot glass but like I said, I’m still the rookie. What the hell was that about? ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2010, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bourbon-drinkers-a-question/563001/2 "2010-12-05T05:02:17Z")
Few bartenders these days actually know a damn thing about bartending. Ask for a Manhattan or a Rob Roy and you’ll most likely get a blank stare. Used to be a bartender was a professional - now most are a pretty face and a c-cup. Damn kids. ---
**Author:** ![Lubricious\_Integument](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lubricious\_Integument](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lubricious_Integument)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2010, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bourbon-drinkers-a-question/563001/3 "2010-12-05T05:54:24Z")
I agree. The bartender didn’t know what to do. I see you are in Indiana. Do you have a reasonable drive to Louisville? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2010, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bourbon-drinkers-a-question/563001/4 "2010-12-05T06:32:31Z")
You did nothing wrong. This exact same thing has happened to me before. Took me a couple seconds to get over my surprise to explain to the bartender that “neat” means “pour it in a rocks glass, no ice.” I can’t remember exactly where I was, but it was outside my usual drinking area, so I thought perhaps “neat” wasn’t part of the local lingo, or something. ---
**Author:** ![Brainiac4](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brainiac4/32/3534_2.png) [@Brainiac4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac4)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2010, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bourbon-drinkers-a-question/563001/5 "2010-12-05T07:16:17Z")
You were right, the bartender was clueless. ---
**Author:** ![Ruby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/13edae/32.png) [@Ruby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruby)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bourbon-drinkers-a-question/563001/6 "2010-12-05T17:08:20Z")
I’m in northern Indiana so Louisville is about 4 hours away. I’ve not had the pleasure of sipping whiskey in Kentucky yet. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mozchron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mozchron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mozchron)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bourbon-drinkers-a-question/563001/7 "2010-12-05T17:09:13Z")
yep, clueless bartender. In this situation, I usually order “bourbon neat, in a rocks glass” to avoid this situation unless I know beforehand that the bartender knows what they are doing. ---
**Author:** ![Ruby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/13edae/32.png) [@Ruby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruby)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bourbon-drinkers-a-question/563001/8 "2010-12-05T17:14:12Z")
Silly me. I thought the bartender knew more than me when it comes to alcohol. Don’t you have to go to school to be a bartender? Surely that can’t be a complicated order. Just for my own curiosity, is “straight up” the same as “neat”? ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bourbon-drinkers-a-question/563001/9 "2010-12-05T17:14:44Z")
> [@Ruby](#): > > I replied, “Well, yes, same as “on the rocks” but without the ice.” This sentence doesn’t make any sense to me. It’s like asking for a martini with a twist, except without the lemon. > [@](#): > > She brought me a shot glass of bourbon. A shot glass? I sent it back and again repeated my order. The server said, “so, you want a double?” We were interrupted by the owner of the restaurant and the server left without any further conversation. If this happened to me, I’d have asked her to serve it in a tumbler. How old was this bartender? My guess: 22. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bourbon-drinkers-a-question/563001/10 "2010-12-05T17:58:33Z")
I’m not much of a bourbon drinker (more dark rum, myself). But my hubby often orders “Scotch, neat” when we go out for a drink. Every bartender we’ve encountered so far has understood that this means a shot of Scotch, in a proper glass, the same kind you’d use to serve Scotch on the rocks. If he wanted a shot of Scotch (in a shot glass), he’d ask for “a shot of Scotch”. To me, a shot glass kind of implies you’re going to ‘shoot’ it, which is to say, down it all in one gulp. An old-fashioned (or ‘rocks’) glass implies you are going to sip it. No Scotch my husband would pay money for deserves to go down in one gulp. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bourbon-drinkers-a-question/563001/11 "2010-12-05T17:58:40Z")
> [@Ruby](#): > > Silly me. I thought the bartender knew more than me when it comes to alcohol. \*\* Don’t you have to go to school to be a bartender? \*\*Surely that can’t be a complicated order. > > Just for my own curiosity, is “straight up” the same as “neat”? Bolding mine… In my experience some places require it, most do not, and where it is required it has a good bit of focus on knowledge of local ordinances to make sure you don’t get yourself or your employer in trouble. When I said bartenders used to be professionals that wasn’t hyperbole. It takes a huge amount of effort to learn to make a wide range of drinks properly and to develop a sense of what each of those should taste like. It takes skill and time. Now I’m not saying you should expect to find this level of experience at every corner bar but it does seem sadly to be a dying craft. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bourbon-drinkers-a-question/563001/12 "2010-12-05T18:01:37Z")
> [@Ruby](#): > > Just for my own curiosity, is “straight up” the same as “neat”? I discussed this (and mentioned my anecdote above) in a recent thread. The consensus among the bartenders and alcophiles was that “straight up” and “neat” are synonymous. I was able to find a couple sources online that state there is a technical difference. A drink served “straight up” should be shaken with ice, and then the ice strained out of it (in the manner of an “(straight) up” cocktail), but “neat” means a room temperature pour. Nobody in that thread was familiar with anyone making that distinction in practice. For me, “shot” means served in a shot glass. “Straight up” and “neat” are synonymous, but I only use the former for cocktails and the latter for straight alcohol pours. ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bourbon-drinkers-a-question/563001/13 "2010-12-05T18:14:32Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I was able to find a couple sources online that state there is a technical difference. A drink served “straight up” should be shaken with ice, and then the ice strained out of it (in the manner of an “(straight) up” cocktail), but “neat” means a room temperature pour. Nobody in that thread was familiar with anyone making that distinction in practice. There are a few cases where this distinction is important (a very few, granted). For example, if you order a glass of Chartreuse, it could legitimately be served either up or neat, so the bartender may ask for clarification. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bourbon-drinkers-a-question/563001/14 "2010-12-05T19:10:50Z")
> [@Hunter\_Hawk](#): > > There are a few cases where this distinction is important (a very few, granted). For example, if you order a glass of Chartreuse, it could legitimately be served either up or neat, so the bartender may ask for clarification. Hmm…Maybe I should use that as a litmus test. Order Chartreuse (the standard green, if there is a choice) “up” at a bar and see if anyone actually serves it shaken with ice and strained. First bartender to do so gets a healthy tip. I actually wonder how many bars have Chartreuse. Is it a standard bar liquor? Is there some obvious cocktail I’m forgetting that uses it as an ingredient? I normally buy it for my father on Xmas. (Ooo…looking online, I see the local liquor stores got a bottle of both the yellow and green in VEP, extra aged. I know what papa’s getting for Christmas this year.) ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bourbon-drinkers-a-question/563001/15 "2010-12-05T20:46:06Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Is it a standard bar liquor? It is at the bars where I drink 🙂 To continue the hijack, try doing a 60/40 or 66/33 mix of the yellow and green versions (it works with the standard offerings, but is better with the VEP, of course). This is sort of a homemade version of the “Chartreuse Episcopal” that they put out a while back for their anniversary. It has a really interesting flavor profile. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bourbon-drinkers-a-question/563001/16 "2010-12-05T20:48:29Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Few bartenders these days actually know a damn thing about bartending. > Ask for a Manhattan or a Rob Roy and you’ll most likely get a blank stare. > Used to be a bartender was a professional - now most are a pretty face and a c-cup. > Damn kids. Last night, Mrs. Cad wanted vodka and grapefruit juice so I told her to order a greyhound. He had no clue what we were talking about. Apparently, the town he grew up in in California called it something different. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2010, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bourbon-drinkers-a-question/563001/17 "2010-12-05T20:52:03Z")
Funny, I’ve noticed that recently in a few bars around here … bourbon neat being served in a shot glass. I thought it was odd, but was content (enough) to sip it out of the shot glass. The glass isn’t forcing me to shoot it or anything. ---
**Author:** ![Ruby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/13edae/32.png) [@Ruby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruby)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bourbon-drinkers-a-question/563001/18 "2010-12-05T21:20:55Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Last night, Mrs. Cad wanted vodka and grapefruit juice so I told her to order a greyhound. He had no clue what we were talking about. Apparently, the town he grew up in in California called it something different. I kinda get this. Local drinkers can conjure up a popular name for a drink that may not be known everywhere. Would it have been a faux pas to order a “vodka & grapefruit”? I’ve often thought that bartenders should have an internet connection behind the bar to be able to make the 9 million different cocktails out there. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bourbon-drinkers-a-question/563001/19 "2010-12-05T21:24:02Z")
Don’t remind me of Chartreuse… ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bourbon-drinkers-a-question/563001/20 "2010-12-05T21:41:22Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Last night, Mrs. Cad wanted vodka and grapefruit juice so I told her to order a greyhound. He had no clue what we were talking about. Apparently, the town he grew up in in California called it something different. A greyhound is made with gin, you fool! Gin! The vodka intruders shall not win! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bourbon-drinkers-a-question/563001.md?page=2)