# Bow down and worship this flag! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 16, 2001, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bow-down-and-worship-this-flag/93821 "2001-11-16T21:42:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2001, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bow-down-and-worship-this-flag/93821/41 "2001-11-17T20:25:33Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by lenin \* > \*\* [list] > [li]Do not post it on another person’s window without asking[/li][li]Do not post it on another person’s window after asking and getting a ‘no’[/li]_\* I think I’m missing something here. Are there in fact people forcibly trying to affix a flag to property which you own? ---
**Author:** ![ignatzmouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b2d939/32.png) [@ignatzmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ignatzmouse)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2001, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bow-down-and-worship-this-flag/93821/42 "2001-11-17T20:33:53Z")
(Having checked Reeder’s previous posts) OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOhhhhhhhhhhhh! Irony!!! Grrrrrrrrr… ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2001, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bow-down-and-worship-this-flag/93821/43 "2001-11-17T20:34:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > \*\*\>\> play “Born in the U.S.A.” 24/7 > > You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. \*\* Inconceivable! ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2001, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bow-down-and-worship-this-flag/93821/44 "2001-11-17T20:59:44Z")
**lenin:** \*You want to fly your flag, go ahead. But there are certain restrictions for this flag posting that goes under the principle of common sense: [Namely, don’t be a jerk about it.] \* Also, as **Sealemon** pointed out, even when flying your own flag and not being a jerk about it, there are rules about the proper way to do it. If you don’t follow them, you end up actually symbolizing contempt for the flag instead of reverence for it. To wit: - Hung flat on a wall or window, flags (horizontal or vertical) should have the stars on the viewer’s left. Never hang or fly the flag upside down (stars on the bottom): that’s a distress signal. - Flags should not be flown outdoors at night except in a lighted area, nor should they be left outside in bad weather. A flag that is obviously worn or torn should be taken down and disposed of properly (burned—privately—or buried, not tossed in the trash). This means that you do **not** go around putting flags up on streetlamps and then leaving them there to rot unattended, nor do you leave a flag flapping on your car antenna until it’s a frayed faded rag! If you put up a flag, you are responsible for taking care of it. - Flags are not decorator accents. You fly them from a flagpole or display them flat on a wall or window, you don’t drape them over a couch or table. You can use textiles in red-white-and-blue and/or with a star-and-stripey theme for such purposes, but not an actual flag pattern. (And **who** was the bozo who thought up the flag-motif **welcome mat** that I saw a store selling last week? For Pete’s sake, you do not demonstrate your patriotism by asking your guests to wipe their feet on the flag! What’s next, flag toilet paper??) I don’t usually fly an American flag myself except at peace marches, but I like to see other people’s displays of them, and it really bothers me to see them turning into shabby rags just because the well-meaning individuals who put them up don’t know any better. Maybe if some of the people who like to wave flags made the effort to take a little better care of them, they’d have less time to spend trying to force flags on everybody else. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bow-down-and-worship-this-flag/93821/45 "2001-11-18T02:47:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Reeder \* > \*\*I hear there are many countries that don’t have “God” on their money. > Perhaps you could relocate? You would be happier. \*\* Did you READ the fucking OP? ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bow-down-and-worship-this-flag/93821/46 "2001-11-18T05:04:55Z")
**lenin** sez: > [@](#): > > Don’t try to hang flags on my windows. If I wanted a tattered piece of cloth to block out the sun, I would have already put it there. Whew! They dodged a bullet there, didn’t they? The flag’s purpose is not a sun-blocker. > [@](#): > > This also applies to people tacking the single striped flags on all the flag poles, covering up already posted advertisements/notices in the process. This accomplishes nothing. I think your response, at least, can be shown to be a direct consequence of their actions. Perhaps you are exaggerating? > [@](#): > > Don’t bitch at me for being unpatriotic. I’ll make a deal with you… you don’t bitch about anyone being patriotic and no one will bitch at you for being _un_patriotic. Deal? > [@](#): > > Just because 4,000 people died, I don’t see any reason to start blindly following the U.S. Government… Oh, oops! I thought we were discussing people putting flags up and around. when did the subject change? > [@](#): > > In case you haven’t noticed, we still have the same Bible-thumpin’ Texas oil-baron in office as we did on September 10th. Sorry, the flag stickers were covering up the ads for oil companies supporting our bible-thumping president. Such a conundrum! > [@](#): > > The government is run by a bunch of clods with their thumbs up their asses, and I’m not going to pretend there’s nothing wrong with this. Why don’t we go put up some flags together and talk about while we labor away? > [@](#): > > Most of these types of replies came from AOL users, which does not surprise me, as AOL users show an average I.Q. equal to that of a turnip. This must be more of that hyperbole. Really, they simply have the IQ of cabbages, but that goes along with the infamous “Bell Curve” book and is usually to be taken with a grain of salt (so to speak). But really, I think they are right: AOL, love it or don’t use it. Think AOL will come out with a disc that has an American flag embossed on it? > [@](#): > > People having power? That must mean the government has, you guess it, less power! Could you explain, in turnip terms for those of us who use AOL, how the second sentence follows from the first? Perhaps a flag is blocking some part of the paragraph which would demonstrate… hmmm, nope, it sure doesn’t. [sub]This post brought to you by **erislover** , who feels that consistency demands that showing patriotism should be just as ok as not showing patriotism, who understand well what the op meant and agrees, just felt like taking some pot-shots anyway because he is a cabbage masquerading as a turnip in subsitution for a man[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bow-down-and-worship-this-flag/93821/47 "2001-11-18T05:14:47Z")
> [@](#): > > I hear there are many countries that don’t have “God” on their money. > > Perhaps you could relocate? You would be happier. What was that the OP said about people trotting out the tired “love it or leave it” argument? It never ceases to amaze me how weak the faith of some people is, that they must have it constantly reinforced by plastering the word “God” all over the money (and whatever else they can get away with). ---
**Author:** ![KSO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@KSO](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KSO)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bow-down-and-worship-this-flag/93821/48 "2001-11-18T06:03:14Z")
I know this is the Pit, so I’m supposed to write something scathing to someone, but all I can come up with is my own amusement at how wonderfully ironic it is for someone who chooses to call him/herself “lenin” bitching about overbearing American patriotism and “worshipping of the flag” in the wake of 9/11… P.S. FWIW, I fall into the 1st Amendment absolutist camp: I may not agree with what you have to say but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it… ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bow-down-and-worship-this-flag/93821/49 "2001-11-18T17:57:54Z")
I don’t fly a flag either. Only because I’m a forgetful goof, and I _know_ that I’d somehow leave the flag out at night, or let it touch the ground, or get it dirty, or hang it upside down. Apparently, that doesn’t bother other people, but it bothers the hell out of me. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bow-down-and-worship-this-flag/93821/50 "2001-11-18T18:08:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Crunchy Frog \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Derleth \* > > **Yeah, it’s _so rude_ to hold on to a personal philosophy in the face of adversity.** > > First, I’d like to remind you that the first part of the post you quoted sides with **Jelly Donut** , says there is no obligation for a student to stand, and the teacher was in the wrong. > > I was simply asking if for one day, would it have been so wrong. It’s not really a big deal, I don’t care if he stands or not. Just wondering. > > \*\* I specifically backed down from that statement in the next paragraph. I wanted to use it as rhetoric, not a position. I, of course, agree with JellyDonut (whose post I cannot find in preview) that there is no obligation to stand. That applies no matter what the day. Especially if there is popular opposition to what you have to say. If you back down from a position just because most of the people around you disagree, you should find out exactly what you _do_ hold as non-negotiable. The man who stands for nothing will fall for anything. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bow-down-and-worship-this-flag/93821/51 "2001-11-18T18:21:16Z")
**Derleth** : You couldn’t find **jellydonut’s** post on preview because it’s now **Palve’s**. He changed his username the other day. jayjay ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bow-down-and-worship-this-flag/93821/52 "2001-11-18T18:30:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jayjay \* > \*\ ***Derleth** : > > You couldn’t find **jellydonut’s** post on preview because it’s now **Palve’s**. He changed his username the other day. > > jayjay \*\* Bah and feh! Well, now I know to search for text in the post, not just the username. ---
**Author:** ![HerMajestyLorna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7cd45c/32.png) [@HerMajestyLorna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HerMajestyLorna)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bow-down-and-worship-this-flag/93821/53 "2001-11-18T18:46:27Z")
I think that there’s a balance between patriotism and blindly following your country that several people are not considering. I, for example, love America. I think it’s a great country, despite it’s many problems. I hung the flag outside after 9/11, and hearing our national anthem sung well makes me happy. My nationality is my second most important identity (the first is just myself). But I do not approve of everything my country is doing. I do not say the pledge of allegiance because I do not believe in god (yes, of course I use money). I love America, meaning I generally support what our country was founded upon, and our ideals. I think it’s a beautiful country with many amazing people living in it. But, that doesn’t mean I always like what we do. Does this sound hypocritical? Because as far as I’m concerned, it’s not. It’s balnced. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bow-down-and-worship-this-flag/93821.md?page=2)