# Bowe Berdahl charged with desertion. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 25, 2015, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowe-berdahl-charged-with-desertion/715983 "2015-03-25T21:35:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowe-berdahl-charged-with-desertion/715983/21 "2015-03-26T20:27:09Z")
You obviously did not pay attention to what you quoted. The US is not at war. Of course its military is fighting an armed group; however, no war has been declared. It’s not an issue of “deciding what to go for”. The officer stated what the maximum penalty is for the charges laid; said penalty under current law is incarceration for life. Even if death were the maximum penalty under current law, that does not require the jury and judge to levy that penalty. There are, of course, certain factors which they may consider to hand down a lesser sentence, presumably “emotional reaction of the juror and the judge” not being one of those things considered. > [@RandMcnally](#): > > If they’re going for life in prison. if he’s found guilty he should spend life in prison. If they decided to seek the death penalty, if he’s guilty, he should be shot. > > Article 85 (c) says “Any person found guilty of desertion or attempt to desert shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, but if the desertion or attempt to desert occurs at any other time, by such punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct.”” > > The issue is if they considered that during a time of war. > > But yeah, whatever the Army decides to try him under, should he be found guilty, he deserves the maximum sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowe-berdahl-charged-with-desertion/715983/22 "2015-03-26T20:32:26Z")
> [@pool](#): > > Oh the guy that longingly fantasizes about killing all his coworkers and driving his ex-wife to suicide is disgusted by my morals? How quaint. :rolleyes: Tu quoque, douche? I don’t recall your first point, and I’ve outgrown the second. Both are based on dated material. You, on the other hand, appear to currently be a proponent of vigilante justice. So yeah, the OP is pretty gross. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowe-berdahl-charged-with-desertion/715983/23 "2015-03-26T20:35:02Z")
This took an ugly(ier) turn. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowe-berdahl-charged-with-desertion/715983/24 "2015-03-26T20:37:37Z")
**Smapti** > [@](#): > > So, OP, since I’m not that guy, let me rephrase the question; are you OK with the idea of abandoning a US citizen and serviceman to torture and death at the hands of the enemy on the basis of the unproven accusation that he may be in that situation because of a personal moral failing? My problem is not so much the fact that we brought him back to the states as it is the fact that we negotiated with the people that were holding him and traded not one but five people for him, if it had been a 1 to 1 trade I would have still had a problem with it but we have traded 5 people who may rejoin terrorist groups for one guy that was a deserter when realistically we should not negotiate with these people at all, because it gives them the incentive in future events, not to mention the fact that President Obama did not involve Congress in that matter and while legally maybe he didn’t have to seek their approval I believe morally he should have involved them. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowe-berdahl-charged-with-desertion/715983/25 "2015-03-26T20:39:36Z")
> [@pool](#): > > It seems after a lengthy investigation Bowe Bergdahl is finally being charged with desertion, which in my opinion based on what I have read about the case, seems completely appropriate. Does this change anyone’s opinion with regard to the prisoner swap that took place in order to free him? I’m completely disgusted that the exchange ever took place and that several potential terrorists were traded for this worthless guy who they should have let just rot over there, as far as I am concerned his captivity was apt karma for the foolish choices he made. A few questions for you: [ol]Do you have even one iota of a clue as to what an [Article 32 investigation is](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_32_hearing)? [li]How about [due process](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_process)?[/li] [li]Were you privy to all the material the investigating officer was required to examine?[/ol][/li] But, hey, let’s howl for someone’s death before he’s tried. It’s so cathartic, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowe-berdahl-charged-with-desertion/715983/26 "2015-03-26T20:39:53Z")
Hey **pool** , how many Guantanamo detainees that have been released in the last five years do you think have headed back to the battlefield? 90% of them? 75% 50%? Just throw a percentage out there. I’m curious what you think. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowe-berdahl-charged-with-desertion/715983/27 "2015-03-26T20:44:18Z")
> [@pool](#): > > My problem is not so much the fact that we brought him back to the states as it is the fact that we negotiated with the people that were holding him [We negotiated prisoner exchanges with the Nazis.](http://magazine.good.is/articles/japanese-internment-prisoner-exchange-program-crystal-city) Why would we not negotiate with a significantly smaller and less powerful organization? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowe-berdahl-charged-with-desertion/715983/28 "2015-03-26T20:45:08Z")
1. Berdahl was not a deserter when he was traded. He was a POW. 2. Obama not involving congress means nothing because, as you point out, he didn’t need to. ISTR he also explained why he chose not to, and that had something to do with a narrow window of opportunity to bring a POW home. You know, if you don’t like laws and civilized systems of justice it’s perfectly ok to say so. But you need to realize you’re living in the wrong country if you’ve got that mindset and you’ll run into a load of people who disagree with you. There’s a lot of uproar about that our civilized system of justice being unevenly applied–do you not see how your attitude is part of that problem? ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowe-berdahl-charged-with-desertion/715983/29 "2015-03-26T20:45:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Hey pool, how many Guantanamo detainees that have been released in the last five years do you think have headed back to the battlefield? 90% of them? 75% 50%? > > Just throw a percentage out there. I’m curious what you think. **Ravenman** Don’t need to guess: [QUOTEAccording to a breakdown released with the latest raw figures, 92 of the 532 Guantanamo detainees released before January 22, 2009 - two days after Bush left office - were confirmed to have returned to the battlefield and 70 were suspected of having done so - an aggregate recidivism rate of 30.5 percent.Mar 5, 2012] [/QUOTE] [http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/06/us-usa-guantanamo-recidivism-idUSTRE82501120120306](http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/06/us-usa-guantanamo-recidivism-idUSTRE82501120120306) ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowe-berdahl-charged-with-desertion/715983/30 "2015-03-26T20:46:41Z")
> [@pool](#): > > My problem is not so much the fact that we brought him back to the states as it is the fact that we negotiated with the people that were holding him and traded not one but five people for him, if it had been a 1 to 1 trade I would have still had a problem with it but we have traded 5 people who may rejoin terrorist groups for one guy that was a deserter when realistically we should not negotiate with these people at all, because it gives them the incentive in future events, not to mention the fact that President Obama did not involve Congress in that matter and while legally maybe he didn’t have to seek their approval I believe morally he should have involved them. 1. Berdahl was not a deserter when he was traded. He was a POW. 2. Obama not involving congress means nothing because, as you point out, he didn’t need to. ISTR he also explained why he chose not to, and that had something to do with a narrow window of opportunity to bring a POW home. You know, if you don’t like laws and civilized systems of justice it’s perfectly ok to say so. But you need to realize you’re living in the wrong country if you’ve got that mindset and you’ll run into a load of people who disagree with you. There’s a lot of uproar that our civilized system of justice being unevenly applied–do you not see how your attitude is part of that problem? ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowe-berdahl-charged-with-desertion/715983/31 "2015-03-26T20:50:56Z")
**The Great Sun Jester** , I’m gonna go ahead and say I’m sorry about what I said earlier it was an ad hominem attack that you didn’t deserve and had no place in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowe-berdahl-charged-with-desertion/715983/32 "2015-03-26T20:57:31Z")
So lets say theoretically one or two of these prisoners goes back to the fight and kills ten Americans, would you still consider this trade justified and these types of negotiations in the future? I would like to talk more about this but I have to go to work right now. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowe-berdahl-charged-with-desertion/715983/33 "2015-03-26T20:58:30Z")
> [@pool](#): > > **Ravenman** > > Don’t need to guess: > > [QUOTEAccording to a breakdown released with the latest raw figures, 92 of the 532 Guantanamo detainees released before January 22, 2009 - two days after Bush left office - were confirmed to have returned to the battlefield and 70 were suspected of having done so - an aggregate recidivism rate of 30.5 percent.Mar 5, 2012] Perhaps you misread my question. In the **last five years** , there have been 115 people released from Guantanamo. Six of them are confirmed to have gone back to the battlefield, and one of them was killed. One additional person was suspected of returning. Overall, that’s a SIX percent recidivism rate. [Link.](http://www.dni.gov/files/documents/Guantanamo%20Unclassified%20Release_March%202015_FINAL.pdf) By way of comparison, the recidivism rate for U.S. criminals is two-thirds within three years, and three-quarters within five years. [Link.](http://www.nij.gov/topics/corrections/recidivism/Pages/welcome.aspx) Interesting, huh? That Americans are 1,200 percent more likely to be recidivists as compared to recent Guantanamo detainees? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowe-berdahl-charged-with-desertion/715983/34 "2015-03-26T20:58:35Z")
> [@pool](#): > > So lets say theoretically one or two of these prisoners goes back to the fight and kills ten Americans, would you still consider this trade justified and these types of negotiations in the future? Absolutely. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowe-berdahl-charged-with-desertion/715983/35 "2015-03-26T21:06:23Z")
> [@pool](#): > > **The Great Sun Jester** , I’m gonna go ahead and say I’m sorry about what I said earlier it was an ad hominem attack that you didn’t deserve and had no place in this thread. we cool ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowe-berdahl-charged-with-desertion/715983/36 "2015-03-26T21:12:58Z")
**Smapti** > [@](#): > > We negotiated prisoner exchanges with the Nazis. Why would we not negotiate with a significantly smaller and less powerful organization? Per your own link: > [@](#): > > Train to Crystal City by Jan Jarboe Russell which details how the U.S. secretly kidnapped thousands of Japanese-, German- and Italian-Americans to use in a clandestine prisoner exchange program called “quiet passage”. The Roosevelt administration repatriated people of Japanese, German and Italian descent, many of whom were born in the U.S., in swaps for American prisoners held hostage during and after wartime. In the meantime, the kidnapped civilians were interned at Crystal City from 1942 to 1948, when the internment camp was shut down. Kidnapped civilians, doesn’t really sound comparable does it? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowe-berdahl-charged-with-desertion/715983/37 "2015-03-26T21:15:01Z")
> [@pool](#): > > I’d say given that six other soldiers died searching for Bergdahl that he richly deserves an execution, But somehow I doubt he will be sentenced to death: > > [http://time.com/2809352/bowe-bergdahl-deserter-army-taliban/](http://time.com/2809352/bowe-bergdahl-deserter-army-taliban/) I understand that “look for Berdahl” was routinely appended to many operational orders during this time, so if anyone got killed on a mission that happened to have this as part of it, some people count them as having died looking for him. Mr. Obama thought that one US citizen who had not been charged with anything was worth several Taliban. Funny how conservatives, who normally fan their faces and get the vapors whenever someone mentions the troops, think that Mr. Obama overvalued one of their heroes. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowe-berdahl-charged-with-desertion/715983/38 "2015-03-26T21:17:24Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > [We negotiated prisoner exchanges with the Nazis.](http://magazine.good.is/articles/japanese-internment-prisoner-exchange-program-crystal-city) Why would we not negotiate with a significantly smaller and less powerful organization? > **[How Bergdahl's Release Fits In The History Of Prisoner Exchanges](https://www.npr.org/2014/06/07/319820390/how-bergdahls-release-fits-in-the-history-of-prisoner-exchanges)** > > NPR's Arun Rath speaks with military historian Paul Springer, author of America's Captives, about the history of prisoner exchanges in times of war. Not just Nazis; we did the same in Korea and Vietnam at ratios as high as 40:1. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowe-berdahl-charged-with-desertion/715983/39 "2015-03-26T21:18:03Z")
> [@pool](#): > > Kidnapped civilians, doesn’t really sound comparable does it? And that was the lengths to which this country was willing to go in a time of war to ensure that no man be left behind. Why do you find the exchange of one US citizen for six enemy combatants less palatable? ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowe-berdahl-charged-with-desertion/715983/40 "2015-03-26T21:36:13Z")
> [@pool](#): > > **The Great Sun Jester** > > Oh the guy that longingly fantasizes about killing all his coworkers and driving his ex-wife to suicide is disgusted by my morals? How quaint. :rolleyes: Don’t bring up other topics or history in threads not about them. > [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > Tu quoque, douche? I don’t recall your first point, and I’ve outgrown the second. Both are based on dated material. > > You, on the other hand, appear to currently be a proponent of vigilante justice. So yeah, the OP is pretty gross. Don’t call posters names in this forum. BOTH of you take it to the Pit if you want to duke it out with words. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowe-berdahl-charged-with-desertion/715983.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowe-berdahl-charged-with-desertion/715983.md?page=3)