# 'Bowling for Columbine'- a MUST see **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 11, 2002, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-a-must-see/136260 "2002-11-11T07:14:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![sbic56](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@sbic56](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sbic56)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2002, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-a-must-see/136260/61 "2002-11-30T05:50:25Z")
Very important movie. The low budget shows and it is a little rough with some irrelevant parts, but stilll very worthwhile. Makes you really wonder WTF Americans are so scared of that we think we need to kill 11,000 of our own each year. Hell, even with the population taken into account we are still shooting each other 10 times more often than our Canadian neighbors? What’s up with that? Hmmm…I hear Vancouver is nice… ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2002, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-a-must-see/136260/62 "2002-11-30T06:10:34Z")
> [@](#): > > Come on Astro, the cartoon was intended to be a farce. (It was made by Trey Parker and Matt Stone of South Park) It wasn’t intended to be a serious, factual history. Well, OK… as I said in my OP, I haven’t seen the rest of the movie yet. Maybe in the larger context of the movie, it is made clear that this history is extremely slanted and inaccurate. But I can’t help being a little peeved that there may well be millions of people watching it and taking it at face value. In fact, the slave trade was not begun by Americans ([cite](http://www.innercity.org/holt/slavechron.html)), African slaves were introduced to America by the Dutch. (Note: this in no way excuses the fact that the Americans took to the idea and continued to import slaves!) Slavery was not invented in N. America. It had been going on for centuries in one culture or another, and continues to this day in some areas of the world. As for the smallpox infested blankets, a very quick google search indicates that it may have been the British who did that. ([cite](http://www.nativeweb.org/pages/legal/amherst/lord_jeff.html)) While the new white settlers certainly did shoot a bunch of Native Americans, a much, much larger portion were killed by diseases that were introduced by the settlers (some purposefully, as above with the blankets… but I’m sure mostly by accident.) ([cite](http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/H/1994/ch1_p3.htm)) My point here is that the history of the founding of the US is one hell of a lot more complex than presented in that cartoon, and it serves no one to spread ignorance (if not outright lies). If that is clearly explained in the movie, then OK…😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2002, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-a-must-see/136260/63 "2002-11-30T06:19:10Z")
[http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5\_066.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_066.html) Cecil on Indians and smallpox blankets And for those of you who haven’t seen the movie: Get out until you see it! Your arguments, however valid, are null and void until you actually see the movie! I could copy and paste other people’s work as well, but if i didn’t see the movie, i run the risk of looking like a fool. (not naming names) ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2002, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-a-must-see/136260/64 "2002-11-30T06:29:58Z")
D’Oh! How could I miss the Master’s own column on it? :smack: > [@](#): > > And for those of you who haven’t seen the movie: Get out until you see it! Your arguments, however valid, are null and void until you actually see the movie! I could copy and paste other people’s work as well, but if i didn’t see the movie, i run the risk of looking like a fool. (not naming names) Assuming that you’re not naming MY name, I did see the part of the movie that is being discussed… but still, you have a valid point. I’ll shut up until I have seen the rest of the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2002, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-a-must-see/136260/65 "2002-11-30T06:37:51Z")
i mean’t the whole movie bashers mostly, and since you saw that part, i got no beef with you. The film is not avaliable on the internet yet? (wink wink) ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2002, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-a-must-see/136260/66 "2002-11-30T10:30:14Z")
It should be noted, as there’s a tangent on the issue, that many (most?) slaves brought to the US were already slaves who were sold by their African masters. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2002, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-a-must-see/136260/67 "2002-11-30T17:10:48Z")
How does it matter how slavery originated? How is American whitey any less culpable? What is the point of whining about this?Slavery has always existed but the American variety was an especially vicious and brutal variety. The cartoon doesn’t SAY that Americans INVENTED slavery, it just says they benefited from it which they DID. look at the statement again. > [@](#): > > The new, white American people were too lazy to do their own work, so they decided to sail off to Africa to get black slaves to do it for them! What part of this statement is not true? How does this imply that they invented slavery? It just says they went and GOT slaves, which they DID. How was the American chattel slave system any less scummy no matter WHO invented slavery? America has a shameful history. Europeans started committing attrocities in the Americas virtually from the day Columbus landed on San Salvador. Racism, slavery and genocide are part of our history no matter HOW you want to revise it. ---
**Author:** ![cainxinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7bcc69/32.png) [@cainxinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cainxinth)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2002, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-a-must-see/136260/68 "2002-11-30T17:13:40Z")
It should also be noted, that African slavery was very dissimilar to American slavery and most of the African chiefs selling war prisoners into foreign slavery were unaware of this. In Africa slaves had some rights, in America they weren’t even human beings. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-a-must-see/136260/69 "2002-12-01T05:40:52Z")
Sorry - I haven’t seen the movie, but it seemed as if it suggested that American’s had a monopoly on slavery. I wanted to clear that up. ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-a-must-see/136260/70 "2002-12-01T12:37:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*America has a shameful history. Europeans started committing attrocities in the Americas virtually from the day Columbus landed on San Salvador. Racism, slavery and genocide are part of our history… \*\* Agreed. And I never said otherwise. My point, as I have stated a couple of times already, is that our history is much more complex than this… > [@](#): > > no matter HOW you want to revise it. Now that’s just insulting! 😉 **I’m** just trying to make a point that you disagree with, that’s all. No need to start slinging around aspersions! I am not a revisionist, just a realist.🆒 Anyways, **Diogenes** , let’s agree to disagree, and let this thread return to its originally planned course. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-a-must-see/136260/71 "2002-12-01T16:29:09Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by me_ > no matter HOW you want to revise it. [quote] _Originally posted by Astroboy_ Sorry, Astroboy. I didn’t mean you personally, I was using the generic “you.” I should have said "…no matter how _anybody_ wants to revise it. I think the point of the cartoon was that America has a violent history and that’s undeniable. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-a-must-see/136260/72 "2002-12-01T16:31:10Z")
Man, I wish I could edit my posts. I was responding to this quote by Astroboy: > [@](#): > > Now that’s just insulting! I’m just trying to make a point that you disagree with, that’s all. No need to start slinging around aspersions! I am not a revisionist, just a realist. ---
**Author:** ![cherry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cherry)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2002, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-a-must-see/136260/73 "2002-12-08T07:21:22Z")
I just saw the movie today, I found the cartoon history lesson simplistically brilliant. Cried when I saw the images of the columbine shooting, I dont know if it was really necessary. Found Marilyn Manson as always to give really good answers. If it’s any consolation my friends in california dont lock their doors either. I did not get the last part about the shooting in a bowling alley and he said sorry to the bowling alley worker. Good movie, esp the k-mart bit wrt bullets, and dick clark came across as a jackass to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-a-must-see/136260.md?page=3)