# Bowling for Columbine SPOILERS! (or..Not a Ring Thread!) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 20, 2002, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-spoilers-or-not-a-ring-thread/133058 "2002-10-20T03:32:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2002, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-spoilers-or-not-a-ring-thread/133058/1 "2002-10-20T03:32:43Z")
Anyone seen Bowling for Columbine yet? i just got back from seeing it (hence the spoilers). There were many funny moments as Micheal Moore pointed out absurd things in American culture. These were interspersed with montages of violent acts set to music. There is actual photage of people being shot (some of which i had seen previously during the one and only time i rented one of those BANNED from TV!!! videos). There were also interviews with Matt Stone (of southpark fame), Dick Clark (or more accurately, his van door), and Charlton Heston. Heston made a comment on the “great dead white men that founded our country.” Overall, the conclusion of the film was that America’s culture of fear is a major factor into why Americans kill each other. The film makes a good point in that regard, however, i feel it oversimplified the issue slightly. Anyone else catch this yet? what are your views? ---
**Author:** ![WSLer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@WSLer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WSLer)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2002, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-spoilers-or-not-a-ring-thread/133058/2 "2002-10-20T03:47:06Z")
Considering the lies that Moore told (and when caught at them, tried and failed to rationalize them away) in **Roger & Me** and the lies he told in **Stupid White Men** and the lies he is spreading on his website, you would think it a safe bet that I would NEVER see _Bowling for Columbine._ You’d be wrong, though I would never pay to see it in the hteater or to rent it on video. So, what does that leave? Easy, buy a ticket for one movie, see said movie, then see a 2nd movie. Moore doesn’t make documentaries, he makes propaganda. A good comparision would be to _Triumph of the Will_ but Leni Riefenstahl has more talent in one her bony 100+ year old fingertips then Moore will ever have in his ever bloating body. I thought the _attack_ on Heston was vile, and it was an attack. Moore is like Rush Limbaugh, in that he’s only preaching to the already converted and he isn’t gaining many new followers. ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2002, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-spoilers-or-not-a-ring-thread/133058/3 "2002-10-20T07:40:14Z")
**WSLer** , I believe Leni Riefenstahl is deceased now. Sometime recently perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![litost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@litost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/litost)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2002, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-spoilers-or-not-a-ring-thread/133058/4 "2002-10-20T08:13:49Z")
What lies did Moore spread in Roger and Me? (I am aware of his Rush Limbaugh-ish website) ---
**Author:** ![gex\_gex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@gex\_gex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gex_gex)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2002, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-spoilers-or-not-a-ring-thread/133058/5 "2002-10-20T13:41:39Z")
> [@](#): > > I thought the attack on Heston was vile… How can an attack on Charlton Heston be vile? ---
**Author:** ![3waygeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/e95f7d/32.png) [@3waygeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3waygeek)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2002, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-spoilers-or-not-a-ring-thread/133058/6 "2002-10-20T13:52:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RexDart \* > \*\ ***WSLer** , I believe Leni Riefenstahl is deceased now. Sometime recently perhaps. \*\* Nope – she just celebrated her [100th birthday.](http://archive.salon.com/ent/movies/feature/2002/10/01/leni_riefenstahl/) ---
**Author:** ![Caprese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9a28c/32.png) [@Caprese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caprese)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2002, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-spoilers-or-not-a-ring-thread/133058/7 "2002-10-20T15:30:46Z")
Saw it last night in Denver, very poignant, survivors of Columbine were there with Moore. Yes, a few over-simplifications and set-up situations, but to Moore’s credit, the film offers no easy answers. If nothing else, Moore has taken America’s thousands of gun deaths and questioned our collective tolerance of them. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2002, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-spoilers-or-not-a-ring-thread/133058/8 "2002-10-20T15:42:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Easy, buy a ticket for one movie, see said movie, then see a 2nd movie. That’s theft. Doesn’t exactly make me want to listen to your opinions. ---
**Author:** ![JavaMaven1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cab0a1/32.png) [@JavaMaven1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JavaMaven1)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2002, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-spoilers-or-not-a-ring-thread/133058/9 "2002-10-20T16:03:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WSLer \* > \*\*I thought the _attack_ on Heston was vile, and it was an attack. > > \*\* An _attack_? It was hardly an attack. Moore asked some hard questions to Heston and asked him if it was insensitive of the NRA to hold gun rallies 2 days after Columbine and 2 weeks after a shooting in Flint, Michigan. Heston dug his own hole (IMHO) when he blamed our level of gun violence our bloody history and our country’s ‘mixed ethnicity’.:rolleyes: Honestly, I would like to believe that the leader of such an influential organization such as the NRA would be prepared for such questions and would have much better answers than what he gave. And I say this as someone raised in an NRA family and someone who does support our constitutional rights to own arms (although I do not personally own them for my own reasons). In regards to the movie, although he does make some good points, there are some things to be taken with a big grain of salt. The part that didn’t settle well with me is the animation in the middle of the movie, that in the end linked the KKK and the NRA together. Some people may see it that way, but I know I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![JavaMaven1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cab0a1/32.png) [@JavaMaven1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JavaMaven1)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2002, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-spoilers-or-not-a-ring-thread/133058/10 "2002-10-20T16:10:19Z")
Sorry–I meant 2 weeks after Columbine, 2 days in Flint. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2002, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-spoilers-or-not-a-ring-thread/133058/11 "2002-10-20T16:50:59Z")
I was intrigued and disappointed by the movie. It’s not exactly a secret that the US has long had a gun culture, but it was interesting to see all the ways it gets all the way down to the level of schools and children. But BfC is also a poster child for why ambush journalism is sheer dispicable bottom-feeding. Those segments were prolonged and painful; they added nothing to the discussion. The Heston segment was different, however. Moore made an appointment with Heston. Heston was evidently expecting another adulation ceremony after Moore announced he was a lifetime member of the NRA, and then froze when the questions had a hard edge. But the exchange should have ended when Heston cut it off. Leaving the dead girl’s picture behind was playing to the cameras. Though Moore has a flair for documentary making, he is not a reporter but a polemicist. You have to take him on those terms. If you go in knowing this, BfC is worth seeing. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2002, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-spoilers-or-not-a-ring-thread/133058/12 "2002-10-20T17:36:53Z")
I used to be a fan of Michael Moore, but I got sickened by his hypocrisy and his complete ineffectiveness. For all his ranting against capitalism he certainly doesn’t mind shying away from reaping its rewards (you know Michael, you could self-publish and distribute your books and not have to worry about what evil corporations say- hell, make them available for free on your web-site like Peter McWilliams did if you’re not really in it for the money), and for all his railing about the situation in Flint it’s gotten progressively worse, not better, since ROGER & ME. In logic he’s neck-in-neck with Ann Coulter and in style & class he’s neck-in-neck with Howard Stern. That said, I do intend to see BfC because I agree: grilling Charlton Heston is never a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![WSLer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@WSLer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WSLer)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2002, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-spoilers-or-not-a-ring-thread/133058/13 "2002-10-20T21:41:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Baldwin \* > \*\* > > That’s theft. Doesn’t exactly make me want to listen to your opinions. \*\* Theft of what exactly? What am I stealing? ---
**Author:** ![WSLer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@WSLer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WSLer)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2002, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-spoilers-or-not-a-ring-thread/133058/14 "2002-10-20T21:43:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Baldwin \* > \*\* > > That’s theft. Doesn’t exactly make me want to listen to your opinions. \*\* How is that any different then using a free pass to the movies to see it? ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2002, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-spoilers-or-not-a-ring-thread/133058/15 "2002-10-20T22:24:21Z")
Did someone give you a free pass? No? I look forward to this movie opening in Dallas. Moore is certainly a propagandist, but he’s also got a great eye for the absurd, and there is much that is absurd about American culture when it comes to guns. ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2002, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-spoilers-or-not-a-ring-thread/133058/16 "2002-10-20T22:54:45Z")
Do any U.K. Dopers happen to know if the film will be shown here too? ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2002, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-spoilers-or-not-a-ring-thread/133058/17 "2002-10-20T23:49:46Z")
Am I allowed to ask for cites in CS? Not that I would be surprised/doubtful that a political entertainer would slant facts to support his or her position, but I would like to see what exactly is being misrepresenting by Moore out of sheer curiosity. I do enjoy Moore’s stuff, but he’s even too leftist for a left-center guy like me sometimes. He reminds me of Rage Against the Machine on occaission–yeah, they have their message and all, but they aren’t exactly work-a-day joes either. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-spoilers-or-not-a-ring-thread/133058/18 "2002-10-21T00:28:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WSLer \* > \*\* > > How is that any different then using a free pass to the movies to see it? \*\* That is the dumbest thing i have ever read. BECAUSE THE FREE PASSES ARE GIVEN OUT BY THE THEATER!!! YOU weren’t given crap. You are a THEIF. So lying is evil, but theft is okay? WSL must mean Wacky Stupid Logic. ---
**Author:** ![Daniel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Daniel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daniel)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-spoilers-or-not-a-ring-thread/133058/19 "2002-10-21T01:50:47Z")
The movie was good. If you don’t mind being beaten over the head with the message he wants to send, and just enjoy the funny parts, then it’s great and I’d see it again. The stuff with Dick Clark, Charlton Heston and K-Mart was, I thought, beneath Moore. Any grass-roots/activist mission must have two things: a target who can be named, and a winnable goal. All he had there were targets, and it seemed his only goal was to be annoying, which actually frustrates his cause. The K-Mart victory looked like dumb luck. That stuff aside, the rest of it was just great for the entertainment value. He clearly knows how to take a serious issue and make it entertaining. I was impressed. ---
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-spoilers-or-not-a-ring-thread/133058/20 "2002-10-21T01:53:04Z")
What was this “k-mart” victory? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bowling-for-columbine-spoilers-or-not-a-ring-thread/133058.md?page=2)