# Boy Scouts \[have ended\] ban on gays **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-have-ended-ban-on-gays/648668 "2013-01-29T00:02:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-have-ended-ban-on-gays/648668/1 "2013-01-29T00:02:25Z")
[This](http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/28/16739587-boy-scouts-close-to-ending-ban-on-gay-members-leaders?lite&ocid=msnhp&pos=1) news came out of nowhere. Like the article said, only a few months ago, I remember the BSA affirming their position on gays, and I think just recently in the last 2 months there was a scout who was being denied his Eagle badge for being gay. I’m stunned. I knew they would eventually come around of course, the anti-gay bandwagon has rode off into the sunset years ago and is not coming back, but I didn’t expect it to be this quick as the article is speculating. Also, aren’t the BSA heavily involved with Mormons? Just 4 years ago they were donating millions to California’s Prop 8, and now they’re close to getting rid of the ban? Unfortunately it still doesn’t go far enough. For as long as they had the ban in place, enforced from the top down, they shouldn’t now leave it up to the individual troops, as the article says they are considering. They should enforce a policy of no discrimination for all the Boy Scouts, that would only be fair. But good for them if they are serious in doing something about this. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-have-ended-ban-on-gays/648668/2 "2013-01-29T00:36:25Z")
My kid was an Eagle Scout. I doubt it has to do with any fundamental sea change in personal attitudes at the top of the Scouting and a lot more to do with anti-gay positions disqualifying the BSA from being endorsed or supported by various companies. I imagine it’s also costing them recruits in some demographics. The BSA should be ashamed of itself re how long and hard they have held onto this nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Dragwyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dragwyr/32/2855_2.png) [@Dragwyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragwyr)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-have-ended-ban-on-gays/648668/3 "2013-01-29T01:07:01Z")
If this decision gets passed at the national level, it means that while the National BSA organization will not be able to discriminate on sexual orientation, they will allow local BSA charters to discriminate all they want. Basically the BSA is trying to cut its financial and member losses by not having to deal with the issue and passing it onto the local level charter troops. They aren’t really trying to be non-discriminatory. ---
**Author:** ![rsat3acr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@rsat3acr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsat3acr)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-have-ended-ban-on-gays/648668/4 "2013-01-29T02:04:34Z")
I think just trying to make themselves look good in the wake of the peodphile issue. No real desire for equality just a “see we’re trying” because of lawsuits. Especially since each troop gets to decide for itself. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-have-ended-ban-on-gays/648668/5 "2013-01-29T02:49:18Z")
Yay. Welcome to the 20th century! ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-have-ended-ban-on-gays/648668/6 "2013-01-29T02:51:39Z")
It’s not ending a ban, it’s passing the buck. They should be ashamed of themselves for pussyfooting around with this, and just man up and admit that they want to keep being discriminatory assholes. Which, I’ll remind everyone, they’re totally allowed to do - they just need to take the consequences for it if that’s the route they want to go, which is what they’re trying to avoid with this shit. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-have-ended-ban-on-gays/648668/7 "2013-01-29T03:00:19Z")
Certainly it’s passing the buck. But with the ‘official’ stance changing, the troups are now on their own. And therefore local shaming/lawsuits will be much more effective. How many troups can afford a protracted court battle. And how many more will fold immediately once they start seeing the others going broke and still losing? Divide and conquer. ---
**Author:** ![GameHat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ed655f/32.png) [@GameHat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GameHat)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-have-ended-ban-on-gays/648668/8 "2013-01-29T04:02:31Z")
Man, I wish the BSA had never waded into their anti-gay bullshit. I was a scout (never made Eagle) but loved it just the same. At least in my troop, religion never went beyond the occasional reference to God and saying a fairly generic grace before meals. There was so much good about my experience - camping, hiking, building huge bonfires, swimming, shooting, nature lore, singing, climbing, ceremonies, cooking, just hanging out with dudes my age. Scouting really was a positive experience, I was deeply saddened when they decided to make it political, because there really is something great there. Having a couple family members that are gay, out, and everyone in the family is OK with that - psssht, c’mon, BSA. Join the damn 21st century. /far lefty //Boy Scout Camp is one of my fondest childhood/adolescent memories ---
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-have-ended-ban-on-gays/648668/9 "2013-01-29T04:15:24Z")
Hm. On one hand: good, they’re years if not decades behind the obvious curve here. On the other hand: damn, there goes my go-to excuse for not having to escort my someday kids to stupid Scout things. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-have-ended-ban-on-gays/648668/10 "2013-01-29T07:36:03Z")
I am thinking up Gay Merit Badges even as I post! ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-have-ended-ban-on-gays/648668/11 "2013-01-29T08:16:13Z")
This story doesn’t exactly give me the warm fuzzies: > [@](#): > > About 50 local United Way groups and several corporations and charities have concluded that the ban violates their non-discrimination requirements and have ceased providing financial aid to the Boy Scouts. An official of The Human Rights Campaign, an advocate for gay rights, said HRC planned to downgrade its non-discrimination ratings for corporations that continue to give the BSA financial support. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-have-ended-ban-on-gays/648668/12 "2013-01-29T08:31:22Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > This story doesn’t exactly give me the warm fuzzies: You have to start somewhere. It’s not like the Montgomery buses were desegregated because whites there suddenly started liking blacks. It was desegregated because the boycott hit them where it hurt. Right in the wallet. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-have-ended-ban-on-gays/648668/13 "2013-01-29T15:29:28Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I am thinking up Gay Merit Badges even as I post! Our scout troop started a “Diversity” merit badge years ago, after a strongly-worded letter from the leaders to the national board. We continued to have a couple of flamboyant leaders and scouts, and actively recruited gays and (gasp!) \*GIRLS \*into our troop. I hope this happens in time. Our sponsoring organization (the big UCC church on Old University Avenue) had decided to show us the (stained glass) door because of the national policy. They were going to years ago, but our local disregard for the rules swayed them. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-have-ended-ban-on-gays/648668/14 "2013-01-29T15:41:14Z")
It’s amazing the amount of bigotry being displayed on the [Boy Scouts Facebook Page](https://www.facebook.com/pages/Boy-Scouts-of-America/113441755297?ref=ts&fref=ts). I’d be ashamed to be a scout and be associated with some of those people. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-have-ended-ban-on-gays/648668/15 "2013-01-29T15:52:06Z")
As an asistant cub scout den leader I’m glad to see the BSA moving in the right direction, at least. From a practical perspective, they were between a rock and a hard place. The ban on gays was costing them sponsorships from some corporations and progressive churches like **digs** ’; but mandating inclusivity from the top down would lead to a massive disaffiliation from conservative groups and churches on the other side. I heard one church leader - I think the BSC - complaining on the radio this morning about the new rule. So I think they took a route that protects the local scouting groups as much as possible, by letting them decide on the local level whether or not to risk losing their sponsoring organization. It’s not ideal, but I do strongly suspect that the number of packs/troops that discriminate against gays will continue to shrink - probably pretty rapidly. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-have-ended-ban-on-gays/648668/16 "2013-01-29T16:38:02Z")
Gay dude checking in - I was in Cub Scouts, then Webelos (do they still have that group?) and then Boy Scouts. Never made it to Eagle Scout (no easy feat!) and sort of fizzled out when I had to try to learn Morse Code and failed miserably. There were quite a few Gay kids in scouts as I grew up - it was no big deal and everyone sort of “knew” but didn’t discuss it back in those days. I think the sole Eagle Scout in our town during my stint was a Gay guy…but can’t be sure as I didn’t know him all that well, but in retrospect I think I am right. Scouting was mostly fun - we got to learn all kinds of things that we probably would never have learned from our dads or from anyone else; some survival techniques, self confidence, working as a team, doing community activities, learning about nature and the environment - I really did learn quite a bit, even if some of it was sort of by osmosis. The point is - it was stupid to have an outright ban on Gays in Scouts to begin with and I agree it is time for the organization to get with the program. If anything, Gay kids need the interaction and skills perhaps more than anyone else - especially if they come from a single parent home or perhaps have had difficulties learning how to interact with other kids in a more informal environment. For example - my gym teachers throughout school were mostly bullies who only wanted to work with the best and strongest kids - all the rest of us were relegated to the “loser” category and treated as such. In Scouts, we had to climb trees, build rope bridges and walk across them (scary at the time, but fun!) and hike long distances and learn to swim better, etc. In other words, we got to do things at our own speed and learn and get better without some frustrated ex-Marine calling you names and humiliating you in gym class for an hour every day. I learned more, and got better, in those weekly Scout meetings than I ever learned in daily gym classes. So I guess I am saying I want to thank all of those adults who volunteered to be Scout Masters and would work with a bunch of kids and teach them some basics skills - all the while making it fun and a learning experience - even if some of those kids were Gay. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-have-ended-ban-on-gays/648668/17 "2013-01-29T18:55:53Z")
For folks who aren’t in Scouting, here’s this: > [@](#): > > The Meaning of the Boy Scout Law > Excerpted from page 47-54, Boy Scout Handbook, 11th Edition, > (#33105), copyright 1998 by BSA, ISBN 0-8395-3105-2 > > A Scout is Trustworthy. > A Scout tells the truth. He is honest, and he keeps his promises. People can depend on him. > A Scout is Loyal. > A Scout is true to his family, friends, Scout leaders, school, and nation. > A Scout is Helpful. > Scoouting is a pale shadow A Scout cares about other people. He willingly volunteers to help others without expecting payment or reward. > A Scout is Friendly. > A Scout is a friend to all. He is a brother to other Scouts. He offers his friendship to people of all races and nations, and respects them even if their beliefs and customs are different from his own. > A Scout is Courteous. > A Scout is polite to everyone regardless of age or position. He knows that using good manners makes it easier for people to get along. > A Scout is Kind. > A Scout knows there is strength in being gentle. He treats others as he wants to be treated. Without good reason, he does not harm or kill any living thing. > A Scout is Obedient. > A Scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobeying them. > A Scout is Cheerful. > A Scout looks for the bright side of life. He cheerfully does tasks that come his way. He tries to make others happy. > A Scout is Thrifty. > A Scout works to pay his own way and to help others. He saves for the future. He protects and conserves natural resources. He carefully uses time and property. > A Scout is Brave. > A Scout can face danger although he is afraid. He has the courage to stand for what he thinks is right even if others laugh at him or threaten him. > A Scout is Clean. > A Scout keeps his body and mind fit and clean. He chooses the company of those who live by high standards. He helps keep his home and community clean. > A Scout is Reverent. > A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others. Scouting is a pale shadow of what it once was in the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-have-ended-ban-on-gays/648668/18 "2013-01-29T19:13:30Z")
For folks who aren’t in Scouting, here’s this: > [@](#): > > The Meaning of the Boy Scout Law > Excerpted from page 47-54, Boy Scout Handbook, 11th Edition, > (#33105), copyright 1998 by BSA, ISBN 0-8395-3105-2 > > A Scout is Trustworthy. > A Scout tells the truth. He is honest, and he keeps his promises. People can depend on him. > A Scout is Loyal. > A Scout is true to his family, friends, Scout leaders, school, and nation. > A Scout is Helpful. > A Scout cares about other people. He willingly volunteers to help others without expecting payment or reward. > A Scout is Friendly. > A Scout is a friend to all. He is a brother to other Scouts. He offers his friendship to people of all races and nations, and respects them even if their beliefs and customs are different from his own. > A Scout is Courteous. > A Scout is polite to everyone regardless of age or position. He knows that using good manners makes it easier for people to get along. > A Scout is Kind. > A Scout knows there is strength in being gentle. He treats others as he wants to be treated. Without good reason, he does not harm or kill any living thing. > A Scout is Obedient. > A Scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobeying them. > A Scout is Cheerful. > A Scout looks for the bright side of life. He cheerfully does tasks that come his way. He tries to make others happy. > A Scout is Thrifty. > A Scout works to pay his own way and to help others. He saves for the future. He protects and conserves natural resources. He carefully uses time and property. > A Scout is Brave. > A Scout can face danger although he is afraid. He has the courage to stand for what he thinks is right even if others laugh at him or threaten him. > A Scout is Clean. > A Scout keeps his body and mind fit and clean. He chooses the company of those who live by high standards. He helps keep his home and community clean. > A Scout is Reverent. > A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-have-ended-ban-on-gays/648668/19 "2013-01-29T19:18:21Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > Certainly it’s passing the buck. But with the ‘official’ stance changing, the troups are now on their own. And therefore local shaming/lawsuits will be much more effective. How many troups can afford a protracted court battle. And how many more will fold immediately once they start seeing the others going broke and still losing? > > Divide and conquer. The Times article on this said that Scout membership has fallen a lot - though I can’t say that isn’t from kids having other things to do. The good thing about this is that while the bigoted troops can stay bigoted, leaders can start their own, non-bigoted troops nearby given sponsorship. In some place that won’t go anywhere, but in some it might drive the bigoted troops out of business. Given the people who run this thing, this is about the best we can hope for. I also only made it to Life. My father, who was a scout when he was a kid and who did all sorts of high level volunteer work even after I left, started a troop. so it is not that hard. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-have-ended-ban-on-gays/648668/20 "2013-01-29T19:32:28Z")
Scoutmaster here. First of all: Thank God that BSA is doing this. As for individual units being able to decide to discriminate, that is the nature of the beast. Unit are owned by organizations and in a way areexpected to reflect the ideals of that organization. For a fundamentalist Christian church to ban homosexuals in their unit is no worse than a Orthodox Jewish troop not camping on Saturday or a Jainism organization only allowing vegetarians in their troop. At least now you have a choice is you don’t agree with the troop’s stance you can pick another. I am disappointed that in leaving it up to the unit, BSA is doing nothing to counter the myth held by many in Scouting that homosexual = child rapist. Now that there is a choice, I need to ask myself that if my troop’s chartered organization gives still bans homosexuals and another nearby troop doesn’t, will I leave as Scoutmaster noe that there is a choice over my disagreement with the anti-homosexual policy. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-have-ended-ban-on-gays/648668.md?page=2)