# Boy Scouts In Need of a Chartering Org? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 6, 2013, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-in-need-of-a-chartering-org/652149 "2013-03-06T03:31:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-in-need-of-a-chartering-org/652149/21 "2013-03-06T19:01:01Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Just to clear up one legal misunderstanding: Boy Scouts of America is not a 501(c)3 organization. They have a Congressional Charter as a Title 36 corporation. From [their webpage](http://aplacetogive.scouting.org/): > [@](#): > > Boy Scouts of America is a nonprofit 501(c)(3) organization. Your donations are fully tax-deductible to the extent allowable by law. Here’s [their 990](http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/2011Form990.pdf). ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-in-need-of-a-chartering-org/652149/22 "2013-03-06T21:06:26Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The two are [not mutually exclusive](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America#Finance). Title 36 chartering is a grant of federal recognition and intellectual property protection, not a tax status. > > The purpose of local chartering groups is pretty simple: otherwise all dues and other income would have to be funneled through the national organization. Thank you, I sit corrected. Imma beat up that little mouthy Cub Scout who miseducated me. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-in-need-of-a-chartering-org/652149/23 "2013-03-06T22:09:11Z")
> [@moriah](#): > > It’d be trivial to create a front organization if a bunch of parents want to if they want to be self sponsoring and fulfill the letter of the law. Now, if parents do that, how much would the national organization both investigate and punish if they do so? I would argue that it’s not trivial at all. Oh, sure, anyone \*can \*do it, but will they do it right? Doing it wrong is easy. Very few people have the expertise to do it correctly. Doing it wrong may or may not bother the BSA at all - you’ll undoubtedly have a legal entity of one type or another and BSA is pretty flexible about the kinds of entities that are eligible to be COs. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-in-need-of-a-chartering-org/652149/24 "2013-03-06T23:03:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The most common chartering organizations are churches and schools. Well I was going to correct you that schools (public schools anyway) can’t charter scout packs/troops, then I saw this post: > [@Skammer](#): > > I’m a cub scout den leader :). Our CO is the local elementary school, and we have the largest pack in the district (I think). Is that a _public_ elementary school? They can’t do that - an endorsement of the scouts is an endorsement of a religious organization, and therefore a violation of the Establishment Clause if an arm of the government does it. Our local Cub Scout pack holds its meetings at the school, but is sponsored by a small nearby church. So I hope you’re referring to a private elementary school, else they could have a lawsuit coming their way. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-in-need-of-a-chartering-org/652149/25 "2013-03-06T23:22:07Z")
> [@](#): > > They can’t do that - an endorsement of the scouts is an endorsement of a religious organization, and therefore a violation of the Establishment Clause if an arm of the government does it. Our local Cub Scout pack holds its meetings at the school, but is sponsored by a small nearby church. First of all, what makes you say that the BSA is a religious organization? One could argue, perhaps, that a troop sponsored by a church is, but that’s not what you’re talking about. Second, the BSA is itself endorsed by the US Congress, so even if there were an objection to be made there, it’s one that’s apparently ignored by Congress and the courts. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-in-need-of-a-chartering-org/652149/26 "2013-03-06T23:26:47Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > Is that a _public_ elementary school? > > They can’t do that - an endorsement of the scouts is an endorsement of a religious organization, and therefore a violation of the Establishment Clause if an arm of the government does it. Our local Cub Scout pack holds its meetings at the school, but is sponsored by a small nearby church. > > So I hope you’re referring to a private elementary school, else they could have a lawsuit coming their way. Eh? No. Schools are free to acknowledge religious groups as long as they aren’t getting special favors. Otherwise there would be no Fellowship of Christian Athletes, among much else. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-in-need-of-a-chartering-org/652149/27 "2013-03-07T01:05:26Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > Well I was going to correct you that schools (public schools anyway) can’t charter scout packs/troops, then I saw this post: > > Is that a _public_ elementary school? > > They can’t do that - an endorsement of the scouts is an endorsement of a religious organization, and therefore a violation of the Establishment Clause if an arm of the government does it. Our local Cub Scout pack holds its meetings at the school, but is sponsored by a small nearby church. > > So I hope you’re referring to a private elementary school, else they could have a lawsuit coming their way. There are many public schools in many states that sponsor scout units. It would only be a first amendment violation if you were required to join. And then it would be for freedom of assembly, not freedom of religion ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-in-need-of-a-chartering-org/652149/28 "2013-03-07T01:20:09Z")
It would also be a first amendment violation if the school was providing financial support. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-in-need-of-a-chartering-org/652149/29 "2013-03-07T01:24:14Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > Well I was going to correct you that schools (public schools anyway) can’t charter scout packs/troops, then I saw this post: > > Is that a _public_ elementary school? > They can’t do that - an endorsement of the scouts is an endorsement of a religious organization, and therefore a violation of the Establishment Clause if an arm of the government does it. Our local Cub Scout pack holds its meetings at the school, but is sponsored by a small nearby church. I suspect in many places, the public school district has nothing to do with Boy Scouts (including providing meeting space ) for reasons unrelated to the first amendment , and in many others, the actual chartering organization is a parent-teacher association of some kind although parents wouldn’t necessarily make that distinction [Chartered Organizations](http://www.scouting.org/About/FactSheets/operating_orgs.aspx) ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-in-need-of-a-chartering-org/652149/30 "2013-03-07T03:48:20Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > They can’t do that - an endorsement of the scouts is an endorsement of a religious organization You’re going to have a hard time arguing that the scouts are a religious organization, and once you do that, that public entities cannot support them. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-in-need-of-a-chartering-org/652149/31 "2013-03-07T05:22:29Z")
When I was a Boy Scout, the chartering organization for my first troop (in Tennessee) was the local public middle school. The CO for my second troop (in Illinois) was actually the U.S. Army post where we lived. Today, the town I live in (in Connecticut) actually has three Boy Scout troops, all chartered by different churches of different denominations. My family is (nominally) Catholic, but this had no bearing on which troop my son picked. He picked the troop that seemed to have the best program (and the one that his friends went to). The church that sponsors my son’s troop is some brand of Protestant church, but that’s about all I can tell you about it. The church certainly does not impose its beliefs on Scouts who are in the troop. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-in-need-of-a-chartering-org/652149/32 "2013-03-07T14:33:40Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > Well I was going to correct you that schools (public schools anyway) can’t charter scout packs/troops, then I saw this post: > > Is that a _public_ elementary school? > > They can’t do that - an endorsement of the scouts is an endorsement of a religious organization, and therefore a violation of the Establishment Clause if an arm of the government does it. Our local Cub Scout pack holds its meetings at the school, but is sponsored by a small nearby church. > > So I hope you’re referring to a private elementary school, else they could have a lawsuit coming their way. Looks like several folks have already addressed it, but yes, it’s the local public school. Which is not at all uncommon (at least around here). The next-closest elementary school to us also sponsors a cub pack. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-in-need-of-a-chartering-org/652149.md?page=1)