# Boy Scouts of America files for bankruptcy **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 18, 2020, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108 "2020-02-18T09:50:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/21 "2020-02-18T17:51:59Z")
I think something else that contributes to the issue is that kids have been increasingly active in a lot more activities than in days of yore. My brother was in Boy Scouts and Little League, and that’s it. That was pretty typical back in the Sixties. His experiences, by the way, were good ones. I would have enrolled my son, but his father said the Scouts were “too militaristic.” :rolleyes: The Girl Scouts have been struggling for years, though they’ve tried to combat it with Girl Power themes and have said they’ll allow boys. I was a Brownie and then, briefly, a Girl Scout. Back then I felt special wearing my Scouts uniform to school. I think it’s important to note that any positions, paid or not, where adults interact with kids and build their trust is a lure for pedophiles. I’m not saying most youth group or recreation program leaders, pediatricians, daycare workers, teachers, etc. are pedophiles; very few are, but people shouldn’t have a false sense of security because their kids aren’t in Boy Scouts. Only a tiny percentage of pedophiles are Boy Scout leaders; the rest get access to kids in other ways. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/22 "2020-02-18T17:56:40Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > As long as you are a Christian–or willing to lie about it. My scout troop met in the basement of the local a synagogue 🙂 . There is as others mentioned non-denominational reference to God in scouting, but it’s not specifically Christian. I was a boy scout in the '60’s. My sons were not when same age in 90’s because…no specific reason I can remember. One of them is a pretty major outdoor type as adult so it’s not that they wanted to sit inside and play video games. I might have suggested it and they didn’t want to at the time for whatever reason (I joined because friends from the block, both Catholic like me and Jewish, wanted to not because my parents wanted me to). The fact that civic organizations are generally weaker is not good generally IMO. Though I like I said, I can’t say I did a lot to sustain the Scouts in the next generation of my family. FWIW (not a whole lot because if sexual abuse occurs fairly rarely that’s still way too often) my experiences with Scout leaders was always positive. I dropped out because we moved and, again for no specific reason I can remember, didn’t pick it up in the new place. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/23 "2020-02-18T17:57:54Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > I think something else that contributes to the issue is that kids have been increasingly active in a lot more activities than in days of yore. My brother was in Boy Scouts and Little League, and that’s it. Not only that, but if a kid is “active” in a sport or activity, it’s now far more likely to be a huge sink of time than it was back then (and not just for the kids, but for the parents, too). ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/24 "2020-02-18T18:00:58Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Sure, but it sounds like your family was already outdoorsy to begin with. > > Lots of kids have parents who aren’t outdoorsy, or who choose to do other stuff with the little free time they have. Scouts is a great way for them to if nothing else, get exposed to outdoor recreational activities without a large investment in equipment, etc… As a single kid from a single mom, Scouts introduced me to opportunities and experiences I would have never had otherwise. As a child growing up in a home full of domestic violence and as a victim of sexual molestation, Scouts gave me a respite and something to look forward to on a regular basis away from the chaos. The men who were the leadership of our troop, in their own limited way, showed me a “normal” model of male behavior. They helped shape my beliefs on trustworthiness, respect for self and for others, loyalty, community and charity, and good citizenship to name a few. This news saddens me for many reasons and it saddens me even more to see people jumping in glee over this outcome with snarky ignorant comments. The Boy Scouts of America are a great organization for boys and teenagers. If I had had boys instead of girls, I would have them participate in Scouting with no reservations at all. Without question I believe the people and the proper organizations need to be held accountable for the actions that occurred related to sexual abuse - without question. I just deeply hope that the Boy Scouts survive as an organization. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/25 "2020-02-18T18:07:02Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Not a defender of the Boy Scouts, but that is really not true. They support all religions though technically they require a religion. My sons troop ignored even that. No shortage of non-Christians in the Scouts in the North East at least. Maybe it is different elsewhere, but not here. > > I don’t like the anti-atheist bit as an agnostic but they really don’t discriminate against race or religion and many troops just ignore the religion thing all-together. > [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Also, though the Scouts are, ostentisbly, a non-religious organization, the Scout Oath includes “duty to God,” and many of the local troops and dens are organized through churches. As fewer (particularly younger) Americans identify themselves as religious, this, too, may be making Scouting seem less relevant to some. > > And, they’ve suffered defections from within. As Scouting tried to make itself more inclusive and relevant, by removing bans on homosexual Scouts and leaders, this angered many conservatives who were involved in Scouting, and caused at least two schisms that I know of – the LDS Church was responsible for about 20% of all Scouts, and they are now forming their own Scout-like organization, while the Southern Baptist Convention is sponsoring an alternative organization, Trail LIfe USA. Call it the decline of “ceremonial Deism” in American private life: Back not very long ago, there was a broader expectation that people would be religious, with a similar expectation that such religiosity wouldn’t really impact their day-to-day life or even their moral sense very much. So there were more “religious” organizations which didn’t have a lot to do with religion defined as being a dogmatic creed, you were just expected to bow your head when the leader mumbled something at the beginning of the meeting and then everyone got on with things. These days? Well, [I’ll quote myself](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=22024546#post22024546): > [@Derleth](#): > > Modern Christianity is coming to be seen as _only_ for the hard-right racists, homophobes, transphobes, and Trump voters. Religious morality is now synonymous with hating people for things they can’t change. > > Without social coercion to force the majority to go to church and play along, the moderates aren’t in the pews to “water down” the hate and make the congregation majority sane; more importantly, saying that homosexuality is wrong because Jesus says so no longer holds any water for a majority, so the people who still preach the traditional bigotries seem like evil aliens instead of respected thought leaders. The religious want their religion to be _religious_, and the rest of us have exited into a society which isn’t judging us for not playing along. Hence the Mormons and the Southern Baptists making their own parochial scouting organizations. Hence mainstream Scouting, one of those “ceremonially Deist” groups which meets in church basements and has religious language in its creed, declining among people who don’t have any use for such things. I’ll say the religious groups fired the first shots in this one, but going beyond that would land us in Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/26 "2020-02-18T18:07:40Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Scouts is a great way for them to if nothing else, get exposed to outdoor recreational activities without a large investment in equipment, etc… I spent a short time as a cub scout when I was whatever age cub scouts are. I was a little uncomfortable with the god thing. I was born an atheist, and in cub scouts I was constantly told I was wrong. Fuck that. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/27 "2020-02-18T18:15:51Z")
> [@MeanJoe](#): > > As a single kid from a single mom, Scouts introduced me to opportunities and experiences I would have never had otherwise. As a child growing up in a home full of domestic violence and as a victim of sexual molestation, Scouts gave me a respite and something to look forward to on a regular basis away from the chaos. The men who were the leadership of our troop, in their own limited way, showed me a “normal” model of male behavior. They helped shape my beliefs on trustworthiness, respect for self and for others, loyalty, community and charity, and good citizenship to name a few. > > This news saddens me for many reasons and it saddens me even more to see people jumping in glee over this outcome with snarky ignorant comments. The Boy Scouts of America are a great organization for boys and teenagers. If I had had boys instead of girls, I would have them participate in Scouting with no reservations at all. Without question I believe the people and the proper organizations need to be held accountable for the actions that occurred related to sexual abuse - without question. I just deeply hope that the Boy Scouts survive as an organization. I don’t question that you benefited greatly from the Boy Scouts. But what values do they really espouse? This is what I mean by hiding bigotry behind good works: Respect for self and for others… _so long as they are not gay_. Community and charity… _among straight Christians_. Good citizenship… _except for the Equal Protection Clause_. The Boy Scouts of America are a great organization for boys and teenagers… _who are not gay or transgender_. And I’m not, of course, suggesting that all, or even the majority, of individual members have these attitudes. But when organizations as a whole embrace bigotry as en explicit core value, you can’t just let it go. And I can’t respect people who join such organizations on the basis that they will just ignore it because of the good stuff. There are other ways to do the good stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/28 "2020-02-18T18:26:06Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > : > > Respect for self and for others… _so long as they are not gay_. They recently changed their policy on LGBT–[they can join as long as they aren’t filthy atheist scum](https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2018/06/13/boy-scouts-of-america-we-still-dont-want-open-atheists-in-our-organization/). ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/29 "2020-02-18T18:33:12Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > The only people who are actually going to “pay”, when you get right down to it, are the families of today’s scouts. It’s certainly not going to be the people who committed the abuses. I don’t really care if the Boy Scouts as a group makes it through this or not. I didn’t intend to imply any bias in my question. I was just legitimately curious. But, since you brought it up, I will just point out that one could use your reasoning to argue that police departments should never be held liable for any wrong doings or civil rights violations. After all, the only people who are going to pay that settlement are the tax payers. Why should they pay for something a department, or rather, an individual officer did wrong? I don’t necessarily disagree with your conclusion. But I definitely disagree with your premise and the argument you used to get there. Hell, the families of today’s scouts actually get to decide if they want to continue to belong to the organization and wish to continue supporting it financially–including funding their legal obligations. They don’t have to remain with the organization. I wish it were that easy to stop paying taxes that will just go to the next victim to be [raped in police custody.](https://brooklyneagle.com/articles/2019/08/12/brooklyn-cop-accused-of-rape-named-in-separate-lawsuit-for-unlawful-arrest/) Tax payers have more of an argument for not paying those lawsuits than the _families of today’s scouts_. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/30 "2020-02-18T18:41:02Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Also, though the Scouts are, ostentisbly, a non-religious organization It is explicitly a religious organization. It requires religious belief of its members. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/31 "2020-02-18T18:45:16Z")
> [@digs](#): > > we learned great swear words from our leaders (gritty WW2 vets, who would’ve beat any abusers to a pulp). Gritty WW2 vets can be abusers too. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/32 "2020-02-18T18:47:00Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > They recently changed their policy on LGBT– They were dragged there kicking and screaming. And even when they did ostensibly end their policy of bigotry a few years ago (after Obergefell), to great fanfare, look what was hidden in the small print: > [@The Boy Scouts Of America](#): > > This change allows Scouting’s members and parents to select local units, chartered to organizations with similar beliefs, that best meet the needs of their families. This change would also respect the right of religious chartered organizations to continue to choose adult leaders whose beliefs are consistent with their own. So they haven’t actually banned bigotry within their organization. All they have said is that bigotry is no longer an obligatory national policy, and local Scout groups are free to continue with their bigotry if they choose to do so. It’s transparently a conservative Christian organization. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/33 "2020-02-18T18:57:28Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > They were dragged there kicking and screaming. And even when they did ostensibly end their policy of bigotry a few years ago (after Obergefell), to great fanfare, look what was hidden in the small print: > > So they haven’t actually banned bigotry within their organization. All they have said is that bigotry is no longer an obligatory national policy, and local Scout groups are free to continue with their bigotry if they choose to do so. > > It’s transparently a conservative Christian organization. So they went too far for the Southern Baptists and the Mormons but not nearly far enough for normal, reasonable people. There _is_ a place for scouting in our world. There _isn’t_ a place for the BSA in our world, unless and until the BSA picks a side and commits to it. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/34 "2020-02-18T19:23:47Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > There _is_ a place for scouting in our world. There _isn’t_ a place for the BSA in our world, unless and until the BSA picks a side and commits to it. Exactly. And given their history, the “don’t ask don’t tell” type of bullshit won’t cut it. They need to cut all ties to bigoted Christian organizations, take drastic steps to cull bigots out of their organization, put in place clear national policies to actively _teach_ and _promote_ diversity. Otherwise, as Acsenray said - best that the organization just dies and something civilized replaces them. Electing an LGBT national leader might be a good start. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/35 "2020-02-18T19:30:12Z")
This was the Girl Scouts, but still: When my wife aged out of Brownies and wanted to join the Scouts, it was run as an invitation only social club and my wife and the other Jewish girl in her Brownies troop did not get invitations. She knew they could probably complain to the national organization, but didn’t want to join under those circumstances. This was in Southern NJ (Exit 1). On the other hand, my daughter was very happy in Girl Guides here in Montreal. Though they met in a church basement, there was no religion even implicit. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/36 "2020-02-18T19:49:46Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > As long as you are a Christian–or willing to lie about it. To add to the pile on, my dad started a troop at our shul, and we went to a Kosher camp that was part of the big Ten Mile River camp run by the Greater New York Council. Great camp - they didn’t trust us to wash the dishes. My father was also Scoutmaster of the UN troop which did not have “A Scout is Reverent” in its laws. Thanks to the Soviet Union, he said. (This was 1950.) But the US Scouts are anti-atheist (we had to go to services) and very Mormon until they more or less pulled out after the LGBT rules changes. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/37 "2020-02-18T19:54:26Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It requires religious belief of its members. Neither BSA group my son was/is a member of required any such thing. ---
**Author:** ![Kovitlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/2bfe46/32.png) [@Kovitlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kovitlac)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/38 "2020-02-18T19:55:12Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Instutionalized anti-LGBT bigotry, on top of all the abuse. > > [Don’t Clap Just Yet for the Boy Scouts | ACLU](https://www.aclu.org/blog/lgbt-rights/lgbt-youth/dont-clap-just-yet-boy-scouts) > > It’s a shitty organization hiding its pervasive bigotry behind “good works”, just like the Salvation Army. Oh good grief. I best not even get you started on Chick-fil-a :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/39 "2020-02-18T20:10:17Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Neither BSA group my son was/is a member of required any such thing. The Scout Oath says: > [@](#): > > On my honor I will do my best to do my duty _ **to God** _ and my country and to obey the Scout Law; to help other people at all times; to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight. (Emphasis mine) And, one of the twelve points of the Scout Law is: > [@](#): > > REVERENT. Be reverent toward God. Be faithful in your religious duties. Respect the beliefs of others. Source for both of these: [What are the Scout Oath and Scout Law? | Boy Scouts of America](https://www.scouting.org/about/faq/question10/) Now, neither of those “require religion” from the standpoint of “you must be a member of a church” or “you must regularly attend religious services.” But, the Scout Oath and the Scout Law both contain explicit declarations of faith, which Boy Scouts are expected to recite. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/40 "2020-02-18T20:14:22Z")
> [@Kovitlac](#): > > Oh good grief. I best not even get you started on Chick-fil-a :rolleyes: What exactly are you rolling your eyes at? What shouldn’t I “get started” on? You say these things like something is self-evident to any normal person. It’s not. Do you think bigoted organizations are just fine, and we shouldn’t be so mean to them? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108.md?page=3)