# Boy Scouts of America files for bankruptcy **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 18, 2020, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108 "2020-02-18T09:50:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/121 "2020-02-20T23:02:27Z")
Modding: I removed the “breaking news” label from the title. Not all new stories fall under the category of breaking news as laid out in the sticky on the subject. This is not a rapidly changing story of the type that are meant to be covered by that sticky. Although this has been covered several times in ATMB please put any questions about this in that forum. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/122 "2020-02-20T23:45:29Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I haven’t been excluded yet. Should I be worried? How about caring for those that _have_ been? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/123 "2020-02-20T23:47:15Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > Define “morality.” Sixty years ago, a person who espoused the idea that LGBTQ deserved equal treatment and the same rights was not seen as “moral” but as “crazy” or “ludicrous” or “stupid,” and this was not controversial. We can debate moral universalism if you’d like, but I’m note sure why you point to the Scouts specifically instead of society generally. Because you can’t attempt to fix specific problems if you insist on sticking to general topics. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/124 "2020-02-20T23:55:34Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > Define “morality.” Sixty years ago, a person who espoused the idea that LGBTQ deserved equal treatment and the same rights was not seen as “moral” but as “crazy” or “ludicrous” or “stupid,” and this was not controversial. We can debate moral universalism if you’d like, but I’m note sure why you point to the Scouts specifically instead of society generally. And sixty years ago we (as a society) were all wrong. Just as we were all wrong in the past about not letting women vote, about slavery, about all manner of things. Our morality today is _better_ than it was in the past. Do you dispute that? The problem is that many members of the BSA _do_ dispute that, and would prefer if we went back to the good old days of “family values”. Nobody is singling out the BSA of sixty years ago for criticism. We are singling out the BSA of _today_, along with all other anti-LGBT bigots of _today_, for not adhering to the higher and better moral standards that all civilized people _now_ embrace. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/125 "2020-02-21T00:02:37Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > How about teaching the kids about teamwork, doing good for your community, and the various other “good values” espoused? Remember, if the organization ceases to exist, then it also ceases to be in a position to teach anything at all, including the value of acceptance of other human beings. At that point, the BSA isn’t a moral exemplar; it’s simply another failed organization that used to do something or other, but that is dead and gone and irrelevant. Please explain to me why an organization cannot teach these things while also making clear that, as a matter of clear national policy, it will _promote_ diversity and tolerance, and will _not_ tolerate anti-LGBT bigotry among its members? The only reason I can see is if a large proportion of its members _are_ anti-LGBT bigots who would not accept such a policy. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/126 "2020-02-21T00:17:20Z")
> [@robby](#): > > In a similar vein, I have told Scouts (and my own son) that “God” can mean whatever they want it to mean. > > Just trying to be helpful. 😉 > I concede that this is nominally the case, but it is also explicitly non-sectarian. To be honest, the religious stuff is still in there to placate the religious people. With many of them having now left, I wouldn’t be surprised if this changes as the number of people in the U.S. who are religious [continues to decline](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/protestants-decline-religion-sharply-shifting-religious-landscape-poll/story?id=54995663). > > Nevertheless, as a non-religious person I still don’t particularly have a problem with the last point of the Scout Law (“A Scout is Reverent.”) As Boy’s Life [explains](https://boyslife.org/about-scouts/scouting-around/35325/a-scout-is-reverent-toward-god/), “A Scout is reverent. He is faithful in his religious duties and respects the convictions of others in matters of custom and religion…” > > The first part of the point (“faithful in his religious duties”) is my own business. If questioned, I would say it was between me and God, which is true enough. Again, I can define “God” however I want. > > The second part of this point is being politely respectful of the religious beliefs of others. I fully agree with this (so long as their beliefs don’t conflict with mine\*). > \*For example, they are free to believe in what they want – they are not free to try to convert me, or make me follow their beliefs. Whereas I, on the other hand, don’t fight the language. They capitalize God and use it as a proper name. They make you swear to carry out religious duties faithfully. You can bend yourself into a pretzel to pretend this isn’t what they’re saying, but I eat my pretzels with grains of salt on them, and thus can’t buy into the twisting. It’s an organization that has theistic elements baked into it. Heck, even pretending it’s more inclusive than specifically christianity is a stretch, since doing so fights the obvious historical intent of the statements. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/127 "2020-02-21T04:17:08Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Please explain to me why an organization cannot teach these things while also making clear that, as a matter of clear national policy, it will _promote_ diversity and tolerance, and will _not_ tolerate anti-LGBT bigotry among its members? The only reason I can see is if a large proportion of its members _are_ anti-LGBT bigots who would not accept such a policy. Follow the money trail. It doesn’t matter what most of the members, or even the leaders, think of LGBTQ rights; it matters what the people paying the bills and sponsoring the troops think. If THEY don’t like the policies, then the organization can 1) reach some sort of accommodation with them; 2) find new funding sources and sponsors (where?); or 3) cease to exist. As has been noted, every troop needs a sponsoring organization. While a variety of civic groups can be sponsors, in practice most sponsors are religious groups, and the religious groups that are growing, or at least holding their own, in America today are more conservative. The other major kinds of civic organizations willing/able to sponsor troops, such as the American Legion and the Elks and the VFW, are themselves mostly organizations in decline, in line with overall civic disengagement in America. If you don’t allow churches (or conservative churches) to have a say, where is the upsurge in interest from other organizations willing to replace them? If the sponsoring church declines to sponsor an organization making clear national policies that are contrary to the church’s teachings, and the troop can’t find another sponsor, the troop is gone. It cannot exist, no matter how inclusive and tolerant the troop’s own leaders and members might be. They need not be bigoted; they merely need to be dependent upon the good graces of somebody or some group that is not so tolerant. > [@Riemann](#): > > And sixty years ago we (as a society) were all wrong. Just as we were all wrong in the past about not letting women vote, about slavery, about all manner of things. Our morality today is _better_ than it was in the past. Do you dispute that? The problem is that many members of the BSA _do_ dispute that, and would prefer if we went back to the good old days of “family values”. > > Nobody is singling out the BSA of sixty years ago for criticism. We are singling out the BSA of _today_, along with all other anti-LGBT bigots of _today_, for not adhering to the higher and better moral standards that all civilized people _now_ embrace. A number of people in this thread, however, do seem to be singling out the BSA because they haven’t moved as fast as some other parts of society. BSA has moved farther faster than the Mormon Church, but not as far or as fast as the Democratic Party (for two obvious examples), so they must be singled out. Big societal changes don’t happen overnight: neither women’s suffrage nor abolitionism came to pass without many decades of work changing hearts and minds, often in incremental steps. However, because the Scouts haven’t quickly changed as much as we want, we’re going to abandon efforts to change them and simply condemn them out of hand, throwing out the baby with the bathwater. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/128 "2020-02-21T04:43:20Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > BSA has moved farther faster than the Mormon Church And they are less racist than the Nazi Party. But we need higher benchmarks of morality for our children than than this. > [@slash2k](#): > > However, because the Scouts haven’t quickly changed as much as we want, we’re going to abandon efforts to change them and simply condemn them out of hand, throwing out the baby with the bathwater. The notion that we need to “go slow” on treating all human beings with decency and respect is utterly bogus. It’s entirely down to the BSA whether they want to reform, distance themselves from conservative Christian groups and establish and enforce national standards for tolerance and diversity. Until they do, I will continue to call them what they are - a vehicle for enabling conservative Christian bigotry masquerading as a secular youth organization. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/129 "2020-02-21T05:52:13Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Modding: I removed the “breaking news” label from the title. Not all new stories fall under the category of breaking news as laid out in the sticky on the subject. This is not a rapidly changing story of the type that are meant to be covered by that sticky. Although this has been covered several times in ATMB please put any questions about this in that forum. I labeled this thread with BN: prefixed because the news had just broken and I had no idea how rapidly it would develop. Just so you know. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/130 "2020-02-21T06:12:22Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > The notion that we need to “go slow” on treating all human beings with decency and respect is utterly bogus. It’s entirely down to the BSA whether they want to reform, distance themselves from conservative Christian groups and establish and enforce national standards for tolerance and diversity. Until they do, I will continue to call them what they are - a vehicle for enabling conservative Christian bigotry masquerading as a secular youth organization. You are still assuming that the BSA can continue to exist without the support of conservative Christian groups, and I’ve not seen evidence for that. If they distance themselves from churches, what groups do you see stepping up to fill the void? If insufficient numbers fill the void, then they’re not going to be around to treat anybody with respect–they’ll be on the dustbin of history. “If you are in the vanguard supporting gay rights, you will lose all of your nice things” is probably NOT the lesson you want to be teaching youth. The Scouts have come a long long way even in the past decade: they lifted the ban on gay youth in 2013 and on openly-gay adult volunteers two years later. That’s not as far as they should have gone, obviously, but what do you hope to accomplish by demonizing them? If the Scouts disappear, the organization most likely to pick up their mantle is Trail Life, which is firmly opposed to LGBTQ rights in any form and very explicitly Trinitarian Christian. Continuing to push BSA to greater tolerance and inclusivity seems to me a more worthy goal than driving them out of business and allowing their place to be taken by a more conservative group, but YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/131 "2020-02-21T07:13:42Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > If they distance themselves from churches, what groups do you see stepping up to fill the void? If insufficient numbers fill the void, then they’re not going to be around to treat anybody with respect–they’ll be on the dustbin of history. Let me be sure I’ve understood this. You’re saying it’s best that the organization continues to embrace bigotry, in order to continue to exist, and thus to retain the potential for becoming an organization that does not embrace bigotry at some indeterminate point in the future? > [@slash2k](#): > > “If you are in the vanguard supporting gay rights, you will lose all of your nice things” is probably NOT the lesson you want to be teaching youth. This “vanguard” nonsense is just another way of saying “go slow”. You either have (and teach, and enforce) tolerance and respect for all people or you don’t, it’s really not that difficult. And I certainly _don’t_ think the moral values we should teach our kids are to embrace anti-LGBT bigotry so that they can get to use local church facilities for group meetings. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/132 "2020-02-21T10:13:40Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > You can bend yourself into a pretzel to pretend this isn’t what they’re saying, but I eat my pretzels with grains of salt on them, and thus can’t buy into the twisting. So…you eat only the straight petezels? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/133 "2020-02-21T12:08:26Z")
Go back 10 years, and 75-80% of their customers are linked to churches, and 100% of their customers are dependent on local volunteers to organize the activities. It is unrealistic to expect an organization with that customer set to be on the leading edge of progressive activity. Shit… go back 10 years and 40% of Americans didn’t think gay sex should even be legal, and we think the BSA should have been on the forefront of encouraging gay men to act as role models for boys? As it is, their late acceptance of LGBT leaders cost them 20+% of their membership. Name another organization that lost so much by embracing inclusiveness. For all of the big talk about boycotting Disney or Apple, or whomever publicly takes a stand for LGBT rights, those things always fizzle out, except for the BSA. They lost BIG by eventually taking that stand, and I suspect that scrubbing God from their program could cost them that much or more since 70% of their membership is sponsored through churches. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/134 "2020-02-21T15:18:34Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It is explicitly a religious organization. Have you been a scout or involved with it? It sure sounds to me like you’re talking out of a nether orifice when you say that. I was in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts, and am an Eagle Scout. I’m also a den leader for my sons’ Cub Scout pack currently. When it comes down to it, there’s a SMALL amount of ceremonial religion in the curriculum (for lack of a better term). There’s a few references to God in the literature, but IMO, it’s more of a sop to the monotheistic churches/mosques/synagogues that sponsor units, rather than an explicit statement of faith. In Cub Scouts, there’s usually an “adventure” that you have to complete that deals with religion for each rank, but it’s decidedly non-denominational. For example, the one for Wolf Scouts (2nd graders) is as follows: > [@](#): > > Complete requirement 1 OR 2 and at least two others: > > [ul] > [li]Discuss with your parent, guardian, den leader or other caring adult what it means to do your duty to God. Tell how you do your duty to God in your daily life.[/li][li]2. Earn the religious emblem of your faith that is appropriate for your age, if you have not already done so.[/li][li]Offer a prayer, meditation or reflection with your family, den or pack.[/li][li]Read a story about people or groups of people who came to America for religious freedom.[/li][li]Learn and sing a song that could be sung in reverence before or after meals, or one that gives encouragement, reminds you how to show reverence, or demonstrates your duty to God.[/li][li]Visit a religious monument or site where people might show reverence. Create a visual display of your visit with your den or family and show how it made you feel reverent or helped you better understand your duty to God.[/li][/ul] So with the exception of explicity mentioning God, that adventure could easily be done by atheist, agnostic or polytheistic families without even violating the spirit of the law, especially if you do the first, fourth and sixth requirements, as the first requirement would be basically fulfilled by discussing that “We don’t believe” or “We believe in several Gods, not just one” There’s no Christian-specific anything, and the fourth and sixth are more learning about religion, not about a religion. I mean, if I was going to actually do this adventure as an organized den thing, I’d probably drag our kids to a mosque or synagogue just for the ecumenical education, rather than dragging them over to the chapel of the church where we meet (the lame way). As it stands, I’m not going to even get close to it- I’ve left it up to the parents with a comment that I’m going to assume you did it, and mark it complete. And that’s the general pack attitude as well. I understand that some people are uncomfortable with even that level of religious discourse, but it’s generally NOT an overtly religious organization in practice. But I’m with Cheesesteak; it’s not necessarily the BSA’s role to be a social justice crusading organization, especially when it’s so tightly coupled with churches for facilities and volunteers. The organization is likely to be populated by members of those churches, or at least sympathetic people, and will likely reflect their conception of morality, not necessarily those of a small set of LGBT or atheist rights people. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/135 "2020-02-21T16:26:09Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Let me be sure I’ve understood this. You’re saying it’s best that the organization continues to embrace bigotry, in order to continue to exist, and thus to retain the potential for becoming an organization that does not embrace bigotry at some indeterminate point in the future? See, I don’t think the BSA “embraces bigotry” NOW; they’re not on the vanguard, but _as an organization_ they’re not stuck in 1955 either. Some troops are more accepting and inclusive than others, and some really need to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century, but the group overall has made huge strides, and you seem to be ignoring what has been accomplished to focus solely on the distance remaining. > [@Riemann](#): > > This “vanguard” nonsense is just another way of saying “go slow”. You either have (and teach, and enforce) tolerance and respect for all people or you don’t, it’s really not that difficult. And I certainly _don’t_ think the moral values we should teach our kids are to embrace anti-LGBT bigotry so that they can get to use local church facilities for group meetings. I’m saying that if the organization ceases to exist, even the troops that are more liberal and accepting may well be gone, no longer able to teach anything at all. If you run the BSA out of existence and cede the field to Trail Life and its ilk, you are doing a better job of teaching kids to embrace anti-LGBTQ bigotry than you would be by pushing BSA incrementally towards greater acceptance. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/136 "2020-02-21T16:27:41Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Have you (or your children) ever recited the [Pledge of Allegiance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance)? We used to recite it every morning in public school when I was in the first grade. That was just about the time that I was starting to become aware of religion as something more than “traditions” my family practiced a couple of times a year. By second grade, the school had dropped the Pledge of Allegiance, which was good because only a couple of years later, it would have started making me very uncomfortable. I rarely am in the situation of reciting the Pledge of Allegiance these days, but now it offends me not only because of the religion bit, but because I am morally opposed to a democratic government creating an oath of allegiance, much less getting people together to recite it in public. However, on those few occasions when I have been in that situation, I either stood quietly with my hands at my side or, if I did chose to recite it, I kept my mouth firmly closed during the “under god” part. > [@](#): > > I treat the references to God in the Boy Scout Oath just like I do the the Pledge of Allegiance and the inscription of “In God We Trust” on U.S. currency – as examples of [ceremonial deism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceremonial_deism). I consider the concept of ceremonial deism to be bullshit. The Supreme Court pulled it out of its ass because it was too chicken to honestly apply the actual principles of the constitution. > [@bump](#): > > Have you been a scout or involved with it? It sure sounds to me like you’re talking out of a nether orifice when you say that. I was a Cub Scout for several years in the 1970s, approximately ages 7-9. I remember reciting the oath and I remember feeling uncomfortable about the reference to god. That and the assumed shared religion and culture of the den mother and other members of the den were one factor in my losing interest in continuing participation. > [@](#): > > When it comes down to it, there’s a SMALL amount of ceremonial religion in the curriculum (for lack of a better term). That makes it a religious organization. > [@](#): > > There’s a few references to God in the literature, but IMO, it’s more of a sop to the monotheistic churches/mosques/synagogues that sponsor units, rather than an explicit statement of faith. Whether or not it’s a “sop,” etc., it is absolutely, literally, incontrovertibly an explicit statement of faith, as shown in all the links I posted before. > [@](#): > > In Cub Scouts, there’s usually an “adventure” that you have to complete that deals with religion for each rank, but it’s decidedly non-denominational. Non-denominational religion _is_ religion. > [@](#): > > So with the exception of explicity mentioning God, that adventure could easily be done by atheist, agnostic or polytheistic families without even violating the spirit of the law, especially if you do the first, fourth and sixth requirements, as the first requirement would be basically fulfilled by discussing that “We don’t believe” or “We believe in several Gods, not just one” What? You would clearly be following the literal word of it, but violating the clear spirit of the exercise. Everything about that exercise screams “this is about us wanting you to be religious.” > [@](#): > > There’s no Christian-specific anything Non-Christian religion is still religion. > [@](#): > > but it’s generally NOT an overtly religious organization in practice. Maybe it’s “not an overtly religious organization in practice.” That doesn’t contradict my statement that it’s explicitly a religious organization. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/137 "2020-02-21T16:40:53Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > …If you run the BSA out of existence… How would I do that? Again, it’s entirely down to the BSA whether they choose to reform, distance their _policies_ from the influence of conservative Christian groups and establish and enforce national standards for tolerance and diversity. Obviously people have the right to _be_ conservative Christians and to send their kids to religious organizations that embrace anti-LGBT bigotry. Given the prevalence of such views in this country, if all the BSA cares about is the size of its membership rather than doing what’s morally right, pandering to such views would probably be a successful strategy. But so long as they choose to continue to enable conservative Christian anti-LGBT bigotry, I’m not going to accept the BSA masquerading as a secular youth organization teaching high moral values. I’m going to call them out for what they really are. Everyone should understand exactly what the organization is really about, so that they can make the right choices for their children. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/138 "2020-02-21T17:00:15Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > But so long as they choose to continue to enable conservative Christian anti-LGBT bigotry And how are they currently doing this? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/139 "2020-02-21T17:08:33Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > And how are they currently doing this? I’m not going to rehash the entire thread for you. Start at post #32, for example. What they’ve said is that ant-LGBT bigotry is no longer national policy, but if local groups choose bigotry under the umbrella of the organization it that’s just fine. Given their history, if they want to be accepted as a genuine secular organization teaching kids high moral standards, they need to distance their policies from conservative religious influence, and set national policies _requiring_ tolerance, diversity and respect for all human beings. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108/140 "2020-02-21T17:10:14Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > And how are they currently doing this? As I understand it, while the BSA removed their bans on homosexual Scouts and leaders, they still permit local organizations to use religious beliefs as a reason to not allow gay leaders. [As per the ACLU](https://www.aclu.org/blog/lgbt-rights/lgbt-youth/dont-clap-just-yet-boy-scouts) (link provided by Riemann in post #19): > [@](#): > > Although it is now possible for gay leaders to serve openly in the Boys Scouts of America, doing so is still just that: a possibility, not a guarantee. The Boy Scouts has lifted its ban on openly gay leaders and employees, but it has allowed religious chartered organizations, which operate more than 70 percent of the Boy Scouts Scouting units, “to use religious beliefs as criteria for selecting adult leaders, including matters of sexuality,” according to their announcement. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-bankruptcy/848108.md?page=8)