# Boy, sure is rape culture around here lately **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [September 25, 2018, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876 "2018-09-25T10:03:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/61 "2018-09-25T19:28:59Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Yeah, your description of an event where someone was allegedly yanked out of a hallway, thrown onto a bed, jumped onto, and where the attacker then stifled her screams and tried to undress her–your description of this event as “coming on strong sexually” is the sort of talk that IMO deserves a warning. A warning based on what? Based on the so-called jerk rule? I think prison rape jokes and death pool threads are in poor taste and jerkish. Can you define jerkish or whatever violation Starving Artist is guilty of please? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/62 "2018-09-25T19:30:10Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You are correct that it is the mods’ call. Do you think (I do, in case it’s not clear) that there is any useful distinction between “she was in the wrong place” and misogyny/rape culture? ISTM that a fifteen year old girl at a house party with no adults and where there is drinking is in the wrong place. > > Regards, > Shodan I’m not exactly sure what the term “rape culture” means, but I suspect there is a significant gap between that and “misogyny”, so lumping them together like that is not useful, IMO. But it’s not so much the “she was in the wrong place” that I think crosses the jerk line, it’s the “it was her fault” that does. “She was in the wrong place” could just be a factual statement without value judgement. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/63 "2018-09-25T19:30:38Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > A warning based on what? Based on the so-called jerk rule? I think prison rape jokes and death pool threads are in poor taste and jerkish. Can you define jerkish or whatever violation Starving Artist is guilty of please? Can I define jerkish for you? Yeah, but I don’t really think that’s a productive use of my time. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/64 "2018-09-25T19:33:41Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Can I define jerkish for you? Yeah, but I don’t really think that’s a productive use of my time. You are the one calling for warnings and bannings. That impacts the whole board does it not? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/65 "2018-09-25T19:34:33Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Can I define jerkish for you? Yeah, but I don’t really think that’s a productive use of my time. ISTM **Bone** [already did](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21229530&postcount=156). ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/66 "2018-09-25T19:34:41Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Note that I said “a” boy, not “that” boy. The meaning was that she shouldn’t have been shocked that guys would be there who would be coming on strong sexually. Your comment is pretty much a perfect example of how comments get twisted around here. Why wouldn’t you just say “she shouldn’t have been shocked that guys would be there who would try to sexually assault her”? I don’t understand why you would say “come on that way” or “coming on strong sexually” I honestly don’t get that. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/67 "2018-09-25T19:35:55Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > ISTM **Bone** [already did](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21229530&postcount=156). Woah woah WOAH I am NOT talking about killing anyone for their behavior! ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/68 "2018-09-25T19:37:14Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > A warning based on what? Based on the so-called jerk rule? I think prison rape jokes and death pool threads are in poor taste and jerkish. Can you define jerkish or whatever violation Starving Artist is guilty of please? How about encouraging illegal activity, seeing as how attempted rape is actually illegal? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/69 "2018-09-25T19:38:29Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Woah woah WOAH I am NOT talking about killing anyone for their behavior! The other line: “That you (Starving Artist) would trivialize this is terrible and I doubt many folks subscribe to this line of reasoning…” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/70 "2018-09-25T19:42:46Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > The other line: “That you (Starving Artist) would trivialize this is terrible and I doubt many folks subscribe to this line of reasoning…” 🙂 OHHHHHHhhhhhhhh ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/71 "2018-09-25T19:43:32Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > But it’s not so much the “she was in the wrong place” that I think crosses the jerk line, it’s the “it was her fault” that does. “She was in the wrong place” could just be a factual statement without value judgement. I think it is common to interpret them as being similar - “she was in the wrong place” is equated to “it was her fault”. Making a bad decision, like going to a strange house with men you don’t know who get drunk, when you’re fifteen, is a bad decision. That’s almost tautological. Because, among other things, you might get assaulted. Was it wrong for someone to assault you? Hell yes. Does that make it not your fault when you make a bad decision? Especially, is it sexist to say “that was a bad decision”? I don’t think so. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/72 "2018-09-25T19:52:20Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > My layman’s understanding is that the argument you are making is one that is part of “rape culture” as popularly defined. **I’m not saying you should feel like a bad person about that; just recognize what the effects of this argument are, and how it doesn’t help solve the problem, but makes it worse**. I’ll say it. Starving Artist should feel like a bad person for his words. What other point to these discussions can there logically be? This isn’t an argument about which mountain is tallest where being in the wrong is a momentary blip. The desired result should be more than shutting down comments; a worthy outcome can be nothing less than a change in attitudes so that the entire spectrum of rape culture is found to be insupportable. Saying that Ford should have been aware she was putting herself in a position to be assaulted is textbook blaming the victim. Going to a party does not make Ford or any other teen complicit in a rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault of any kind. The onus is always, 100% of the time, on the male not to do any of these things. Until every male understands this, any remarks to the contrary do indeed make the problem worse. Making rape culture worse is not “going against the grain.” It is an offense against humanity that needs to be shouted down, loudly. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/73 "2018-09-25T19:53:34Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I think it is common to interpret them as being similar - “she was in the wrong place” is equated to “it was her fault”. I don’t. But then, I’m not common. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/74 "2018-09-25T19:55:17Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I’ll say it. Starving Artist should feel like a bad person for his words. … Isn’t this the wrong forum to say that? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/75 "2018-09-25T19:56:00Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I’ll say it. Starving Artist should feel like a bad person for his words. What other point to these discussions can there logically be? This isn’t an argument about which mountain is tallest where being in the wrong is a momentary blip. The desired result should be more than shutting down comments; a worthy outcome can be nothing less than a change in attitudes so that the entire spectrum of rape culture is found to be insupportable. > > Saying that Ford should have been aware she was putting herself in a position to be assaulted is textbook blaming the victim. Going to a party does not make Ford or any other teen complicit in a rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault of any kind. The onus is always, 100% of the time, on the male not to do any of these things. > > Until every male understands this, any remarks to the contrary do indeed make the problem worse. Making rape culture worse is not “going against the grain.” It is an offense against humanity that needs to be shouted down, loudly. Any crime is on the criminal. It doesn’t make it a crime to advocate common sense precautions. I have children. I tell them not to take rides from strangers. Learning to avoid human predators is very important for survival. Ideally, there wouldn’t be human predators. Until that day, risk mitigation is important. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/76 "2018-09-25T20:01:23Z")
There are certainly some disgusting sentiments in that thread, but is it a rape _culture_? Culture is the collective sentiments of a group of people. How many people in that thread are expressing the disgusting sentiments, versus how many are opposing those sentiments? I get the impression that the problem is a small number of people making a large number of posts. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/77 "2018-09-25T20:04:36Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > There are certainly some disgusting sentiments in that thread, but is it a rape _culture_? > [@Bone](#): > > But consider that the arguments being objected to are almost mainstream arguments from the Republican party. We’re not talking just about the thread’s culture; we’re talking about elements of the culture in which the thread exists. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/78 "2018-09-25T20:05:44Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Any crime is on the criminal. It doesn’t make it a crime to advocate common sense precautions. I have children. I tell them not to take rides from strangers. Learning to avoid human predators is very important for survival. > > Ideally, there wouldn’t be human predators. Until that day, risk mitigation is important. [That bullshit](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=859466) again? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/79 "2018-09-25T20:13:03Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > [That bullshit](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=859466) again? Whatever you are trying to communicate lacks clarity. If you want to offer a rebuttal use your words instead of an unclear and ultimately irrelevant link. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/80 "2018-09-25T20:18:23Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I tell them not to take rides from strangers. Learning to avoid human predators is very important for survival. If your children DID get in a car with strangers and then got hurt in some way, would you, afterwards, say “I TOLD you not to take rides from stranger!” and then blame them? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876.md?page=5)