# Boy, sure is rape culture around here lately **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [September 25, 2018, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876 "2018-09-25T10:03:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/81 "2018-09-25T20:38:31Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Isn’t this the wrong forum to say that? I explicitly limited my criticism to his words. They were, _pace_ George Carlin, bad words. > [@George Carlin](#): > > Bad words. That’s what they told us they were, remember? ‘That’s a bad word.’ ‘Awwww.’ There are no bad words. Bad thoughts. Bad Intentions. And words… No individual word is bad, to be sure. Just certain strings of them. This entire thread is about whether people should feel bad for posting certain specified strings of words. Yes, they should. All of them. Without exception. There is no point to this thread unless that’s the moral we take away from it. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/82 "2018-09-25T20:39:13Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > If your children DID get in a car with strangers and then got hurt in some way, would you, afterwards, say “I TOLD you not to take rides from stranger!” and then blame them? I would hope that a parent could communicate the important lesson (‘do not take rides from strangers’) without _blaming_ the child. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/83 "2018-09-25T20:39:14Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > If your children DID get in a car with strangers and then got hurt in some way, would you, afterwards, say “I TOLD you not to take rides from stranger!” and then blame them? Of course not, but I might be frustrated with them for not taking the common sense precautions that we repeatedly strove to teach them. The responsibility IS with the criminal, but risk mitigation is just common sense. If you’re going to be away home for an extended period, do you lock your doors? It’s the criminal’s fault for being an asshole if he steals stuff from your house, and not locking your doors doesn’t somehow make them less culpable, but at the end of the day, YOU are the one who had your shit stolen. So you lock your doors. Now if someone were to say that you deserved to have your house burgled because you didn’t lock your doors, I don’t agree. But I admit that I would be less sympathetic to someone who admits to not locking their doors when complaining about their burglary than if they had locked their door. That’s the issue here- a lot of people seem to be confusing “deserve” with “less sympathetic” when it comes to this kind of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/84 "2018-09-25T20:47:40Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That’s the issue here- a lot of people seem to be confusing “deserve” with “less sympathetic” when it comes to this kind of thing. Maybe. But that seems strange to me. “Yeah, I know you were raped, and I feel bad. But just so you know, I would feel even MORE bad for you if you weren’t wearing that short skirt at the frat party” ‘less sympathetic’ like that? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/85 "2018-09-25T20:47:58Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I would hope that a parent could communicate the important lesson (‘do not take rides from strangers’) without _blaming_ the child. The question here is not what Ford’s parents should or did tell her. The question (in this specific regard, not more broadly) is whether, after she’s allegedly attacked, it’s appropriate to trivialize the harm done to her by considering the ways in which she acted imprudently. To do so is precisely analogous to blaming a rape victim for wearing too short a skirt. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/86 "2018-09-25T20:49:46Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The question here is not what Ford’s parents should or did tell her. The question (in this specific regard, not more broadly) is whether, after she’s allegedly attacked, it’s appropriate to trivialize the harm done to her by considering the ways in which she acted imprudently. > > To do so is precisely analogous to blaming a rape victim for wearing too short a skirt. Careful, the eight-armed one is liable to deem you an ignorant zealot. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/87 "2018-09-25T20:56:12Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Careful, the eight-armed one is liable to deem you an ignorant zealot. I, like Gloria, will survive. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/88 "2018-09-25T21:02:27Z")
To clarify, my remarks that were quoted in the OP were not based solely on the elections thread. I’d just finished reading the[11th hour #metoo allegations](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=862767) thread in IMHO. I don’t see how BPC’s OP is about any one thread in particular, but we’re supposed to limit THIS thread to the Elections thread on Kavanaugh? And anyone who has questions about moderation re: misogynist/rape culture comments in another thread should start a separate thread here in ATMB? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/89 "2018-09-25T21:04:49Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > If your children DID get in a car with strangers and then got hurt in some way, would you, afterwards, say “I TOLD you not to take rides from stranger!” and then blame them? Sense we do not live in a Platonic idealized just world we must mitigate risk regardless of the political correctness of the concept. Unfortunately, people link willingness to engage in risky behavior with culpability when the source of harm has agency. However, those are distinct concepts. No one would bat an eye about scolding a child who suffered a minor finger burn while playing with matches. The matches have no agency and the child does. The behavior was risky and the burn was a consequence. However, it’s all kinds of badthink to extend that concept of avoiding risk, yet we all do it, when the danger has agency itself. When the danger is another human then willful criminal behavior is the fault of the criminal. It’s not the “fault” of the victim. That’s not the same thing as exposure to risk. Is walking in a group, avoiding sketchy areas, being careful if someone hands you a drink, locking your doors, having a dog, etc. suggestions that blame the victim? If so, too bad. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The question here is not what Ford’s parents should or did tell her. The question (in this specific regard, not more broadly) is whether, after she’s allegedly attacked, it’s appropriate to trivialize the harm done to her by considering the ways in which she acted imprudently. > > To do so is precisely analogous to blaming a rape victim for wearing too short a skirt. No it’s not. Excusing criminal behavior is different than criticizing risky behavior. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/90 "2018-09-25T21:08:18Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Careful, the eight-armed one is liable to deem you an ignorant zealot. Actually I’m not liable to do any such thing. What I will do is disagree with the argument if I disagree with the argument. I don’t need to get into name calling or, with hypocritical language, ask for people to be banned for posting a different point of view. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/91 "2018-09-25T21:15:44Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Maybe. But that seems strange to me. > > “Yeah, I know you were raped, and I feel bad. But just so you know, I would feel even MORE bad for you if you weren’t wearing that short skirt at the frat party” > > ‘less sympathetic’ like that? Let’s spin this around and look at it from another perspective; if you had a college-age daughter, would you be fine with her going to a frat party wearing skimpy clothes and getting super-drunk? The onus is ALWAYS on the male, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/92 "2018-09-25T21:17:21Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Actually I’m not liable to do any such thing. What I will do is disagree with the argument if I disagree with the argument. I don’t need to get into name calling… > [@Hypocrite PC-zealots and their strawmen.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/45): > > …ignorant zealotry… > [@Hypocrite PC-zealots and their strawmen.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/49): > > …ideological zealotry… > [@Hypocrite PC-zealots and their strawmen.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/57): > > …PC zealots… … ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/93 "2018-09-25T21:18:32Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Any crime is on the criminal. It doesn’t make it a crime to advocate common sense precautions. I have children. I tell them not to take rides from strangers. Learning to avoid human predators is very important for survival. > > Ideally, there wouldn’t be human predators. Until that day, risk mitigation is important. Okay, and you don’t quite see a problem here equating “woman going to a party” with “child getting into a stranger’s car”? Because I see at least a couple, from infantilizing women to the ever-shrinking set of spaces where it is okay for women to simply _exist_ no longer including most social situations (especially where alcohol is involved), according to those who would infantilize said women. What, you think most women aren’t _aware_ of these things? Why yes, it _is_ a risk to walk down a dark alley. It _is_ a risk to be at a party. It’s a fucking risk to walk the streets of the city without backup. It’s a risk to be alone at home, or at home with your father. It’s a risk to be alone at school. It’s a risk to be alone at _church_. _Everything is a risk_. When you start using that to say, “well, shit, no wonder she got raped”, or equate it with _a child entering a stranger’s car_… Yikes. That’s fucked-up. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/94 "2018-09-25T21:30:09Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > … The pit and ATMB are vastly different spaces. I’m sure you are aware of that. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Okay, and you don’t quite see a problem here equating “woman going to a party” with “child getting into a stranger’s car”? Because I see at least a couple, from infantilizing women to the ever-shrinking set of spaces where it is okay for women to simply _exist_ no longer including most social situations (especially where alcohol is involved), according to those who would infantilize said women. What, you think most women aren’t _aware_ of these things? Why yes, it _is_ a risk to walk down a dark alley. It _is_ a risk to be at a party. It’s a fucking risk to walk the streets of the city without backup. It’s a risk to be alone at home, or at home with your father. It’s a risk to be alone at school. It’s a risk to be alone at _church_. _Everything is a risk_. When you start using that to say, “well, shit, no wonder she got raped”, or equate it with _a child entering a stranger’s car_… Yikes. That’s fucked-up. Good thing no one is making that argument. But good for you for slaying another straw man. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/95 "2018-09-25T22:18:31Z")
I am very glad that we are in ATMB, as I can now say what I want to say. (I did not want to be the one to start the thread, as I am not directly affected.) **Starving Artist** admitted to at least knowing about rapes going on in his youth but not trying to stop them. And he is condoning these attempts, saying it’s just normal behavior, and no big deal. This crosses the Caesario line. It crosses the Nazi line. He is being a jerk. He is promoting a crime. It should be punished. I don’t think it’s too much to ask that you can’t come in and say that it’s okay to attempt to rape people. I would like this a board to be a place I could recommend to people. And, no, I’m not going to argue with **Starving Artist** here about it. I would suggest that others avoid that, too, since such sidetracks often get these threads closed. As I said in the Pit thread, he’s not saying “it’s bad, but it didn’t happen.” He’s not saying “It’s bad, but she shouldn’t have been drunk” or something similar. He’s saying that attempting rape is normal and okay. You guys ask what would improve this board. Here’s a start. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/96 "2018-09-25T22:24:01Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > The pit and ATMB are vastly different spaces. I’m sure you are aware of that. And I’m sure you are aware that “to deem” is “to regard or consider” and has nothing to do with making such regards or considerations known, whether by writing or saying. Is that communication clear enough for you? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/97 "2018-09-25T22:25:12Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And, no, I’m not going to argue with **Starving Artist** here about it. I would suggest that others avoid that, too, since such sidetracks often get these threads closed. There’s already a thread for that down in the Pit, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/98 "2018-09-25T22:40:32Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > **Starving Artist** admitted to at least knowing about rapes going on in his youth but not trying to stop them. And he is condoning these attempts, saying it’s just normal behavior, and no big deal. > He’s saying that attempting rape is normal and okay. Utter nonsense. I’ve said and done nothing of the sort. This is yet another instance where someone has taken my words, applied a completely different interpretation or set of standards to them, and then attempted to hold me responsible for the distortions they’ve created. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/99 "2018-09-25T22:53:45Z")
> [@Starving Artists thinks attempted rape is not "all that serious"](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artists-thinks-attempted-rape-is-not-all-that-serious/821855/18): > > This is all 100% politically motivated. Ford was not harmed. Whatever groping happened, happened over her clothes. There was no skin-on-skin contact and she was able to get away fairly easily. > > So give me a friggin’ break with your self-righteous howling over this relatively minor incident that very well may not have actually happened. :post doorhinged: ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876/100 "2018-09-25T23:17:17Z")
This post you quoted? It does not mean what you’re trying to claim that it means. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boy-sure-is-rape-culture-around-here-lately/821876.md?page=6)