Are you referencing the novel, or the movie? I don’t remember some of those things… but I haven’t read the novel. And I don’t really see it as analogous to the Whedon stuff - again, one of the issues is that we’re talking about comic relief characters, of which Gone With the Wind has… well, I guess you can count the nanny, sort of. Another issue is one of mixed tone, a big problem Whedon has. Shifting from horrible death and destruction to quip or sight gag in 2.2 seconds, it’s not organic.
Those are all from the movie.
I definitely don’t remember the near-rape. It’s been a while since I’ve seen it though.
Oh, and Xander started moving away from being simple comic relief in season five. He still had his moments in season six, but seven was all Andrew’s party.
Another complaint I have about season seven, but one which is not germane to this thread. I like Andrew - he’s funny. But Xander was criminally under-utilized in season seven.
The attempted rape was the reason for the men’s decision to go “clean out” the shantytown, which resulted in Frank (Scarlett’s husband) being killed. It was not very graphically sexual in the movie, but she was grabbed by several scary men and her carriage nearly fell off a bridge before Black Sam saved her.
Ahhhh… okay, that rings a bell.
I was referring to the fact that you were attempting to argue from superiority with spectrum, due to the fact that you’ve read spoilers. It seems a bit ironic considering you have no problem disagreeing wtih people who have actually gotten their information first-hand.
I don’t care one way or the other if you see the movie or not. I just think your opinions are ill-informed.
Also, do you have any other examples of this hack-writing staple of abuse to comic relief characters? This is the first time I’ve ever heard of such a thing.
I don’t know what you’re talking about. I was warning him not to spoil the movie for anyone who might happen by, because what he said might be viewed as spoilers by some.
That’s your opinion and you’re more than welcome to it.
It’s not limited to comic relief characters.
Producer 1: “We need to ratchet up the drama, people are having too much fun watching the movie.”
Producer 2 : “Okay - suddenly kill or maim one of the most popular characters.”
Writer : “Which one? I want to make sure it fits in with the overarching story I’m developing, because -”
Producers : “Shut up and go get the dartboard.”
Orual has a point. You’re sounding like someone who avoids Hooters because they “know” what goes on in them, only they don’t know because they’ve never been in one.
… except they’ve had people with a seeming vested interest in persuading them that they don’t know what’s going on, and providing detailed testamonials to that effect.
Indirect evidence is still evidence. It’s the basis of the criminal court system. If your argument for the defense is “Well, sure he murdered the guy, but he had a good reason!” then I’m gonna convict.
Ah, I misunderstood. I do that a lot here. Sorry.
Well, you’ve said that you don’t think character pain/dismemberment/death is bad, I was just looking for some non-Jossverse examples, so I could figure out where you were coming from.
AAAARRRRGHHH!!! Why, oh WHY did I open this thread? Why did I read it? Why did I highlight the first line of a spoiler that I thought was talking about an episode!?!
::cries::
You know where you see it most often? B-Horror movies. It’s even become a cliche of the genre. Sudden, shock value death or dismemberment, to “one of the ones you thought would survive, gasp, shock!”
I’m sorry, Knouf - I did my best to make it clear.
Well, I knew you were talking about the movie, but as glanced through and thought one of the boxes was about an episode. I was very, very wrong.
But now that I know, I don’t have a problem with it, per se, assuming the event fits in with the plot reaosnably well and isn’t just gratuitous.
Joss Whedon is known for being unafraid of killing of major characters when it serves a larger dramatic purpose.
For example: Jenny Calendar, Joyce Summers, Buffy herself, Angel, all in BtVS; Doyle, Cordelia, Fred
Well, this is probably closing the horse long after the stable door has been stolen, because I suspect all the Whedon/Serenity fans have read this thread long ago, but I have changed the title to indicate that there are unboxed spoilers.
And I’m going to echo TubaDiva’s warning in very clear and very stern terms: spectrum, name-calling is NOT permitted in this forum. You may say what you like about Joss Whedon or his works, you may be critical of what other people say, but you may not call them names. There is a difference between what a person says and what a person is.
Thus, saying an opinion is puerile is permitted. Saying that a person is childish is NOT permitted. Get it?
How is this different from you basing such an exteme opnion on reviews and spoilers without you ever having seen the context?
It isn’t. Your analogy was incomplete, and I was providing additional detail to make it, y’know, analogous. With the additional material, it’s actually similar.
I had known that a major character likely buys the farm ever since the first thread on Serenity.