# "Boys Don't Cry" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 2, 2005, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-dont-cry/282653 "2005-01-02T04:36:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-dont-cry/282653/21 "2005-01-02T17:29:18Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > I wish they could make a movie about a transgendered character where they don’t kill them off in the end. It’s an old trope in movies- introduce a challenging character, let them have some adventures, and then kill them off. It’s good to see trans people being part of the media, but I wish there were more positive portrayals that don’t end in tears. [Hedwig and the Angry Inch](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0248845/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxzZz0xfGxtPTIwMHx0dD1vbnxwbj0wfHE9SGVkd2lnIGFuZCB0aGUgYW5ncnkgaW5jaHxodG1sPTF8bm09b24_;fc=1;ft=1) Seems like it’ll end in tears, but pulls out of that nosedive in the final reel. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-dont-cry/282653/22 "2005-01-02T17:46:18Z")
There is a murder, but it’s not the transexual woman who gets it in [Soldier’s Girl](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0324013/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxzZz0xfGxtPTIwMHx0dD1vbnxwbj0wfHE9U29sZGllcnMgR2lybHxodG1sPTF8bm09b24_;fc=1;ft=4;fm=1), which like _Boys Don’t Cry_ is a dramatization of a real story. [Calpernia Addams](http://www.calpernia.com) has moved on. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-dont-cry/282653/23 "2005-01-02T17:56:24Z")
> [@Number Six](#): > > Brandon did some dumb things, true, but he wasn’t the one who made the situation dangerous, and he didn’t get himself killed. The situation wasn’t dangerous for Brandon until the police outed him. Brandon did what he could to protect himself when he was raped; he went to the police, and then hid for a week while the men who should have been in jail hunted him and the police did nothing. Wow, rural Nebraskans sure are tough on check forgers! Good thing the guy from _Catch Me If You Can_ wasn’t caught in Nebraska. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-dont-cry/282653/24 "2005-01-02T18:00:48Z")
> [@shy guy](#): > > **Priam** , I agree completely. I don’t see how anyone can help but have extreme sympathy for Teena during the course of the movie… but that didn’t stop me from furiously thinking “What the _fuck_ are you _doing_?!” throughout the entire thing. I agree as well. I was mad at him too, but we have to remember that he was a small town redneck himself/herself (forgive my ignorance of pronouns here). He wasn’t the smartest, and did some really dumb things. But, during the rape scene, my heart bled for that soul. And the worst part of it is that when it happened it real life, it was probably more gruesome. You can be mad, think someone’s stupid, and love them all at the same time. That was my feeling toward Brandon throughout the movie. Swank made us geniunely care about this kid, and that made his demise so much more tragic. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-dont-cry/282653/25 "2005-01-02T18:37:26Z")
> [@KellyM](#): > > I question the degree to which I have “chosen” my life. I’m not a transsexual by choice. My transition was a last resort to avoid suicide, not something I decided to do because it sounded like fun. Yeah, after posting I realized that could be misconstrued. What I meant, in my own mind, was something like “choosing to have the guts to _present_ as what you know yourself to _be_.” But, yeah, lousy choice of words, and _mea culpa_ – please don’t hold it against me! ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-dont-cry/282653/26 "2005-01-02T18:42:50Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > I wish they could make a movie about a transgendered character where they don’t kill them off in the end. It’s an old trope in movies- introduce a challenging character, let them have some adventures, and then kill them off. It’s good to see trans people being part of the media, but I wish there were more positive portrayals that don’t end in tears. [Ma Vei En Rose](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119590/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxzZz0xfGxtPTIwMHx0dD1vbnxwbj0wfHE9bWEgdmllIGVuIHJvc2V8aHRtbD0xfG5tPW9u;fc=1;ft=20) [The Ballad of Little Jo](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106350/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxzZz0xfGxtPTIwMHx0dD1vbnxwbj0wfHE9dGhlIGJhbGxhZCBvZiBsaXR0bGUgam98aHRtbD0xfG5tPW9u;fc=1;ft=4;fm=1) (The title character dies at the end, but it’s from natural causes in middle age, and has nothing to do with Jo’s sexual identity). ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-dont-cry/282653/27 "2005-01-02T18:50:59Z")
I forgot [Southern Comfort](http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hv&cf=info&id=1804383668&intl=us) is a documentary without murder. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-dont-cry/282653/28 "2005-01-02T19:10:06Z")
To me the most interesting I noticed while watching the film was not the story of Brandon Teena herself. I knew most of that before seeing the movie, and my reactions to that were rather like those that have already been explained in this thread. I was impressed by Hilary Swank’s performance and thought she deserved her Oscar. What I was surprised by was how well shot the film was and how well it showed the modern Midwest. I was expecting something that was technically no better than one of those TV “disease of the week” movies and was surprised by its cinematic competence. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-dont-cry/282653/29 "2005-01-02T20:26:44Z")
> [@Rex Fenestrarum](#): > > If you’re a woman that wants to pass herself off as a man, knock yourself out, I say. Be the best man you can be, then. But don’t hang out with psychotic, drunken fucking rednecks, OK? Who was the poor kid supposed to hang out with, Manhattan socialites? Brandon was associating with people of his own socio-economic background, not all that far from his hometown. He didn’t really have the means to do otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Rex\_Fenestrarum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rex_fenestrarum/32/7265_2.png) [@Rex\_Fenestrarum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rex_Fenestrarum)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-dont-cry/282653/30 "2005-01-02T20:35:35Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Who was the poor kid supposed to hang out with, Manhattan socialites? Brandon was associating with people of his own socio-economic background, not all that far from his hometown. He didn’t really have the means to do otherwise. Please. A $59 Greyhound bus ticket could have gotten him to Dallas, Chicago, Atlanta, New Orleans or any other large city that’s either gay rans-friendly or at least has “enclaves” large enough to support him in comfort. It’s not for nothing that a _huge_ portion of the gay rans community in Atlanta comes from small towns like Dadeville, Alabama or Abbeville, South Carolina or Pikeville, Tennessee. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-dont-cry/282653/31 "2005-01-02T20:48:31Z")
Well, maybe if he hadn’t been brutally murdered when he was barely 21 Brandon would have decided to save up for that bus ticket and move far, far away. But again, he didn’t have a lot of opportunity to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Priam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/77aa72/32.png) [@Priam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Priam)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-dont-cry/282653/32 "2005-01-03T03:54:10Z")
OK **Rex** , I tried to be sympathetic and defend your position but really… not everyone wants to be an exile from a town and a people they love. I live in a conservative suburb of a conservative city in a conservative region. Should I abandon my family, my friends, my appreciation for this place just because of small-minded bigots? Even if I could, uprooting like that is often a painful and disturbing concept to even consider. On the other hand, by remaining in this place, I could censor my actions and speech to gain a modicum of safety. I personally choose not to because I believe my freedoms are just as enshrined as any other person’s. To quote Benjamin Franklin, “Those who would sacrifice a little Liberty for more Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety”. I’ve become involved. I’ve spoken out. I’ve written letters to the editor. I’ve become just about as “out” and a target as any person could ever be. Does this mean I am somehow to _blame_ if someone decides to pick up a baseball bat and stove my head in? No. I could paint myself purple, strap the word “Homo” to my chest and dance naked down Vine St. yet in no way do I deserve any ill-treatment. Arrest for indecent exposure? Perhaps. Violence? No. Never. No matter what. No human being should ever, short of direct intervention to save the life of another, inflict violence on anyone. No one ever “deserves” that. No one should ever even think “well they had it coming” or “well if only they had toned down a little…”. Y’know what? Maybe they’d be all right now had they followed our advice. Guess what though? _We’ll never know_ because someone _did_ decide they had it coming and gave it to them… in spades. We all make foolish choices in our lives that have unforeseen consequences. Some of them we should’ve seen beforehand. Some of them we did but went ahead anyway. And some of them we _are_ responsible for. But the choice of another to inflict degradation, pain… even death upon those selfsame occassional fools? The line is drawn at that point. When it transfers from my decision to be fully out in dubious circumstances towards the decision of another to pick up a gun and end a life, we must also transfer all blame at that moment. No excuse, no platitudes, no “well he should have” can confer one whit of that blame to the victim. I have presented a situation independent of Brandon’s for the sake of a more clear-cut example. In his case there are even more gray areas about what his intentions and choices actually were versus what externalities were forced upon him. Did he probably make some bad choices? Yeah. But then again, I should like to paraphrase a wiser person than I… “Let he who is without fault cast the first stone”. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-dont-cry/282653/33 "2005-01-03T07:15:12Z")
Wow, I just got a few more things for my Netflix list… ---
**Author:** ![august9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7993a0/32.png) [@august9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/august9)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-dont-cry/282653/34 "2005-01-03T09:40:06Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > I wish they could make a movie about a transgendered character where they don’t kill them off in the end. It’s an old trope in movies- introduce a challenging character, let them have some adventures, and then kill them off. It’s good to see trans people being part of the media, but I wish there were more positive portrayals that don’t end in tears. And here’s one more 🙂 [The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109045/) ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-dont-cry/282653/35 "2005-01-03T10:30:20Z")
> [@Freejooky](#): > > I’m about as bleeding heart as liberals get, but I’m with Rex on this one. A few years back, I lived in rural West Virginia - think _Deliverance_ - and knew a guy that moved to town who was totally gothed out - he’d wear the white pancake makeup, black lipstick and eyeliner, etc. Though I went through a goth phase in high school and am totally receptive to many alternative lifestyles, I told the guy that this was _simply NOT the place_. He ignored it, and a few weeks later, he got the _shit_ beaten out of him by idiot rednecks. > > Should he be able to look however he wants? Sure. Should he know better than to do that around the type of cavemen that inhabit rural West Virginia? Definitely. I was born and raised in West Virginia. Several of the “cavemen” that inhabit rural West Virginia have gone on to be famous nobel prize winners, actors, et cetera. And West Virginia is by far the safest state in the Union, with the lowest crime. Was one of the first states to abolish the death penalty and stood firmly for equality during the period of racial turmoils in the South (Civil War and on.) ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-dont-cry/282653/36 "2005-01-03T10:32:11Z")
> [@Rex Fenestrarum](#): > > Boo-fucking-hoo. > > If you’re a woman that wants to pass herself off as a man, knock yourself out, I say. Be the best man you can be, then. But don’t hang out with psychotic, drunken fucking rednecks, OK? I mean, expecting “understanding” of your gender issues from someone that care barely spell their name is a bit much, isn’t it? > > Don’t get me wrong here. In a perfect world, it wouldn’t matter. People would love each other for the content of their character, not the color of their skin, their sexuality or what gender they really are. > > But until I can look out of the window and see Black, White, Hispanic and Asian kids hand-in-hand skipping across a field with docile tigers looking on - just like in the Jehovah’s Witness pamphlets - it just ain’t gonna happen. > > In a perfect world, a woman should be able to wear whatever she wants to a biker bar too, but dressing up like a hootchie around a bunch of drunken, violent men is a recipe for disaster too. > > Sorry, but all my friends recommended this movie to me as one of the best films ever made. Five minutes into it I knew that dumbass was gonna get himself killed. It would also be nice if you weren’t judged simply based on where you were born. Because redneck is a derogative term that is applied to people almost solely based on the accent they have and the place they were born. Welcome to hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-dont-cry/282653/37 "2005-01-03T10:32:34Z")
> [@Rex Fenestrarum](#): > > It’s not for nothing that a _huge_ portion of the gay rans community in Atlanta comes from small towns like Dadeville, Alabama or Abbeville, South Carolina or Pikeville, Tennessee. And why should they have to leave? Why blame the victim for getting unjustly attacked? Yes, if I went back to Jonesville, Virginia, and talked openly about my sexuality, I might very well be assaulted. Does that begin to justify it? There’s such a community in Atlanta in part because the people from Dadeville and Abbeville and Pikeville made the decisions that they preferred living in a friendlier area to struggling through making their area friendlier (though not necessarily, by any means, friendly). Rose Hill, Virginia, is losing a damn fine piano player, not to mention a really great guy, because the general community sense in Southwest Virginia is distinctly homophobic (albeit with refreshing spikes of tolerance in some cases). The amount of Pit-worthy material I heard there in two years - and I stepped foot ONCE in a church, and that for the wedding of two friends - I didn’t object to leaving, but to insinuate that someone who is castigated for being a member of the gay community should just up and leave or face facts, so to speak, is outrageously offensive and insensitive and fundamentally misplaced. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-dont-cry/282653/38 "2005-01-03T11:56:14Z")
Thanks for the expression of support, **Polycarp**. 🙂 It truly means a lot. I was going to respond to the word “chosen” even though **KellyM** beat me to it and set the issue straight as it needed to be. What I was going to say: What have I “chosen,” after all? I’ve chosen to be true to who I am. What other choice does a person have? Choose to hide from yourself? Would anyone choose that consciously? When you bring full consciousness to bare on who you are… I believe it’s the nature of consciousness itself, if it’s truly conscious, to choose to be true to who you are. The “choice” to hide from oneself is only made when consciousness isn’t functioning. The “choice” I have made is to go ahead with my self-actualization, and that is more in the nature of a plant growing upward to the sun; my “choice” is to nourish its growth, not to impede it. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-dont-cry/282653/39 "2005-01-03T17:11:53Z")
To me the true villian in the story of Brandon Teena is the cop who did not do his job. Yes there are assholes in the world and they should be avioded if possible, but for law enforcement to ignore the rape was the biggest crime. Too often police decide just who to protect and serve and if you are wrong sexual orinetation, wrong race, wrong gender or wrone economic class, well tough shit. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-dont-cry/282653/40 "2005-01-03T17:25:09Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > I forgot [Southern Comfort](http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hv&cf=info&id=1804383668&intl=us) is a documentary without murder. It’s murder in MY book! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-dont-cry/282653.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-dont-cry/282653.md?page=3)