# "Boys will be boys!" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 9, 2016, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-will-be-boys/759472 "2016-07-09T15:27:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-will-be-boys/759472/81 "2016-07-12T21:18:28Z")
The (all-boys) school I attended for ninth grade had the attitude that “boys will be boys”. I was subjected to constant bullying, yes, including pantsing, and the administration did nothing, because after all, there wasn’t much bullying going on, and you’re always going to have some. And yes, the pantsing absolutely did appear to be sexual in motivation, in that the bullies used the fact that I was _not_ pulling down other boys’ pants as evidence that I was supposedly gay. The (also all-boys) school I transferred to for 10th-12th said outright that no, boys will not be boys. Boys are boys, but what they will be is men, and they are expected to act as such. Oddly enough, there wasn’t any bullying at that school. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-will-be-boys/759472/82 "2016-07-12T21:30:48Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And yes, the pantsing absolutely did appear to be sexual in motivation, in that the bullies used the fact that I was _not_ pulling down other boys’ pants as evidence that I was supposedly gay. No school bullying policy AND no logic taught in class? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-will-be-boys/759472/83 "2016-07-12T22:59:38Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > So, corporal punishment is in again? > How about spanking, corrective slap? > We’ve had decades of drumming into us that _any_ form of violence was _never_ acceptable. Were we wrong? Strictly my personal opinion… I disagree that violence is _never_ acceptable. It’s _rarely_ acceptable. From my viewpoint, if you’re being violently assaulted or your life is in danger violence may well be your best option. Of course, that level of danger is not what we’re talking about here. I consider pantsing someone at about the same level as being slapped in the face without warning. It’s not life-or-death and no one _has to_ respond in a physical manner but I would consider that a proportional response. Given that we’re talking about immature human beings, that is children, it may be more effective than trying to lecture them on wrong-doing or delayed punishment. I don’t want to lay down a prescription for every possible event because context and the parties involved are also factors to consider. Note, however, this is NOT about teachers or school officials administering corporal punishment, this is about the offended party doing do. If one child pants another and the victim knees the perpetrator or open-hand slaps them across the face I don’t see a need to punish the victim, and likely not to further punish the perpetrator (unless the perpetrator is a chronic offender). You are all free to differ in your opinions, of course. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-will-be-boys/759472/84 "2016-07-12T23:10:07Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Yes. You also said it was no big deal. That’s where you’re wrong. > > Being forcibly disrobed is threatening to a girl or a woman. It’s a bigger deal to them than to boys or men. You don’t seem to understand that. Maybe your mates, who had the unwritten rule of NOT doing that to a girl, had some understanding of that. It’s like going topless is almost expected of men at the beach but it would be scandalous in most places for a woman to do that. > > Touching people without their consent, or in a manner they find objectionable, is wrong\*. That applies just as much to children as to adults. > > - There are a few exceptions, such as restraining a violent person who’s a threat to others, but they’re an exception, not the rule. Several years ago, I was at a meetup and the woman sitting next to me, instead of addressing me by my name, would pinch my shoulder. The third time she did it, I said, “Please do not grab my shoulder. I don’t know you, and you’re really violating my personal space by doing that.” I found out later that she does this to everybody, and I should also have told her that she was hurting me (yes, it was painful!). What makes people think they can do that, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-will-be-boys/759472/85 "2016-07-12T23:10:14Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > OK. > How do you feel about some forms of violence against women? > An instinctual self defence where a woman screams in your face, an inch from your nose, for instance. You’re allowed to yell back as loud as you want to, but unless she touches you, you aren’t allowed to touch her. If she hauls off and gut-punches you or something, though, I certainly support your right to defend yourself with a proportional response. As far as I’m concerned “No hitting women” is revoked as soon as the women starts the hitting/physical violence. > [@Eonwe](#): > > How do you know that? Because of statements like the following. > [@Bruce\_Wayne](#): > > We pants’d each other as well in the Midwest in the 90s. Nothing as extrem as Gary and Wyatt in _Weird science_ in front of the cheerleading team. We didn’t do it to girls, just like we didn’t knock the books out of girls hands in the middle of the hallway, or punch girls in the arm. Boys socialize with each other different than girls. Girls can be just as cruel only more subtle. If you’re in a culture where this sort of behavior is considered acceptable/tolerable among boys but not among (or to) girls then yes, it’s not as big a deal to the boys. ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-will-be-boys/759472/86 "2016-07-12T23:27:11Z")
> [@](#): > > We pants’d each other as well in the Midwest in the 90s. Nothing as extrem as Gary and Wyatt in Weird science in front of the cheerleading team. We didn’t do it to girls, just like we didn’t knock the books out of girls hands in the middle of the hallway, or punch girls in the arm. Why is that acceptable? If an adult did any of those things they’d be charged with assault. If an adult ripped someone’s clothing off they’d be charged with sexual assault because it is obviously sexual in nature. The bullying I observed in high school was major crime level if adults did it. I have no idea why it was excused and overlooked and hope it won’t be in future. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-will-be-boys/759472/87 "2016-07-12T23:39:02Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > Phrasing it the way that you have does not work. I said that men and woman are equal but needed to be approached differently, this is important when dealing with children, boys and girls think differently, to get them to understand about acceptable behaviour you have to tune in to their individual ways of thinking 1. You haven’t established a rational basis for saying that men and men “need to be approached differently,” but regardless, I don’t see how that’s relevant. 2. You haven’t established a rational basis for saying that “boys and girls think differently” that’s independent of learned behavior, but again I don’t see how that’s relevant. 3. You’re the one who somehow connected the equal status of men and women in society as leading to a “boys will be boys” attitude. It’s up to you to explain the connection. 4. So far as I can tell, “boys will be boys” is an attitude that went along with the idea of male domination of society. Now that we have less of one, we have less of the other. So your conclusion seems entirely backwards to me. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-will-be-boys/759472/88 "2016-07-12T23:45:36Z")
I just asked my husband if he ever pantsed anyone as a child. He said yes, in kindergarten or 1st grade. And it was a girl - because he liked her. And that he got into a massive amount of trouble as a result. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2016, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-will-be-boys/759472/89 "2016-07-13T11:59:08Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > 1. You haven’t established a rational basis for saying that men and men “need to be approached differently,” but regardless, I don’t see how that’s relevant. > > 2. You haven’t established a rational basis for saying that “boys and girls think differently” that’s independent of learned behavior, but again I don’t see how that’s relevant. > > 3. You’re the one who somehow connected the equal status of men and women in society as leading to a “boys will be boys” attitude. It’s up to you to explain the connection. > > 4. So far as I can tell, “boys will be boys” is an attitude that went along with the idea of male domination of society. Now that we have less of one, we have less of the other. So your conclusion seems entirely backwards to me. My statement that men and woman are equal is a strongly held belief made to show that there is no bias. People far better qualified than myself have established that the thought process between men and woman can be different, both come to the same conclusion but by different paths. I did not say that the equal status between men and woman was causing the boys will be boys attitude, I did say that the one size fits all does not take into consideration the difference in thought processes. In the UK state education system the majority of teachers are woman and there is a concern that boys are not keeping up with the girls. My own grandson age sixteen and intelligent has had problems understanding the thought process of some of his female teachers. Through youth work I have spoken to boys who are not doing well at school, they are succeeding in classes that are held my male teachers, but are failing in classes held by female teachers, the usual comment is I do not know what the hell she is going on about and tend to loose interest, the girls in the same class are doing well so it is not a question of the teaching being sub standard. This may not be the absolute proof that you are looking for, but I believe that it is a valid line of thought. Attitudes are created through a learning process if the learning process does not match the thought process then the attitudes become confused Now you can understand why I started by saying that I believe that men and woman are equal. At no time are my comments derogatory towards woman. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2016, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-will-be-boys/759472/90 "2016-07-13T12:35:35Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > I did not say that the equal status between men and woman was causing the boys will be boys attitude, I did say that the one size fits all does not take into consideration the difference in thought processes. And I see no reason to believe that this is at all relevant to the topic. > [@](#): > > Now you can understand why I started by saying that I believe that men and woman are equal. No, I can’t understand. I can’t follow a trail of reasoning that seems relevant to what we are talking about. > [@](#): > > Men and woman are equal BUT they are very different and the one size fits all culture does not work and leads to the application of the dreadful boys will be boys attitude towards unacceptable adult male behavior. Please explain this statement. You make an assertion here: _A_ leads to _B_. Support that assertion, please. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2016, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-will-be-boys/759472/91 "2016-07-13T15:23:59Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > If you’re in a culture where this sort of behavior is considered acceptable/tolerable among boys but not among (or to) girls then yes, it’s not as big a deal to the boys. Who says it’s acceptable/tolerable among boys? The boys who perpetrate violence against other boys, and the boys who are afraid to talk about how it makes them feel and/or internalize habits of victimhood because people like you say “it’s not a big deal to boys”. Consent is equally important to all genders, and suggesting that it matters less to boys or girls is way off base, and is exactly the kind of “boys will be boys” thinking that you’re arguing against in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2016, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-will-be-boys/759472/92 "2016-07-13T16:10:27Z")
We’ve told our kids not to hit people unless they are in danger, then they can do whatever they want to them. I would see someone trying to take off my daughter’s pants as “in danger.” I’m not going to require her to verify their motive and age before screaming and punching them. Unless the age and motive don’t matter? Maybe there’s a specific age where it goes from “prank” to “crime?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boys-will-be-boys/759472.md?page=4)