# BP Boycott **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 10, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671 "2010-06-10T16:43:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/21 "2010-06-10T20:09:13Z")
> [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > What I’m seeing is an American national pride thing. Essentially an attempt to disown all responsibility. I haven’t seen any of that. I have not heard from or spoken to anybody who gives a damn that the company is based in Britain. Most people hold BP responsible. That BP happens to be British is not meaningful. > [@](#): > > Everyone makes mistakes. You were saying something about “disowning all responsibility?” When you spell someone’s name wrong in a letter, you can say ‘everyone makes mistakes.’ When you cause an enormous environmental calamity through negligence and greed, that doesn’t apply. The accident wasn’t intentional, but the crap that led up to it was. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/22 "2010-06-10T20:17:44Z")
Halliburton is headquartered in Dubai. Not an American company. BP dominates the safety violation producers in the oil companies. They collect about 97 percent of the violations. They are a great example of whats wrong with international ,unrestrained capitalism. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/23 "2010-06-10T20:28:53Z")
[quote=“Marley23, post:21, topic:542671”] I haven’t seen any of that. I have not heard from or spoken to anybody who gives a damn that the company is based in Britain. Most people hold BP responsible. That BP happens to be British is not meaningful. [quote] That it’s not American is meaningful. You probably have to be non-American to see this. > [@Marley23](#): > > You were saying something about “disowning all responsibility?” When you spell someone’s name wrong in a letter, you can say ‘everyone makes mistakes.’ When you cause an enormous environmental calamity through negligence and greed, that doesn’t apply. The accident wasn’t intentional, but the crap that led up to it was. They are taking responsibility. But you can’t expect these disasters never to happen. They just do. “Negligence and greed” is just over-emotive crap. > [@gonzomax](#): > > Halliburton is headquartered in Dubai. Not an American company. > BP dominates the safety violation producers in the oil companies. They collect about 97 percent of the violations. They are a great example of whats wrong with international ,unrestrained capitalism. I have no doubt you can backup that 97% claim in some twisted misunderstood way, but it’s complete bollocks nontheless. As for the Dubai thing… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/24 "2010-06-10T20:29:10Z")
Boycotts can only be effective when the offender is fairly flat, for instance a local chain of three restaurants, or a consortium of California grape farmers, or something like that, and even then the effect is debatable. Boycotting BP gas stations in the U.S. is not even the prick of a mosquito. If it makes you feel better, by all means, go for it. Disgust at a brand is as good a reason not to give them your money as any. Just don’t expect it to hurt the corporation too much. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/25 "2010-06-10T20:32:31Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > That appears also to be a bit of mis-characterization of Boehner’s comments, and at a minimun “Headline Fail”. BP doesn’t need a bail out, it will generate positive cashflow greater than $20 billion in 2010. It has already made payments in excess of $300 million to various gulf states. BP has said many times, it will pay for the clean up. A few piddling billions? Have we any reason to believe that they have enough money, when we don’t have any idea how much all of this shit is going to cost? One damn thing: no way…no fucking way!..should BP be paying out dividends on its profits. Unh-unh. Nope. Whats the line about the French guy talking about how the English have to hang an admiral every once in a while, to encourage the others? _Pour encourager les autres?_ What will happen? All of this shit will Go To Court. A lawyer feeding frenzy, with a couple hundred, maybe thousands, in all sorts of venues and jurisdictions, with BP lawyers dreaming up new and interesting ways to slow, delay, impede, and drag out the process until the Rapture. And in the meantime, we, the people, will be picking up the tab. Don’tcha just love risk-taking entrepreneurship? Well, you better. You own it when it blows up. They own it when it comes up money. ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/26 "2010-06-10T20:33:36Z")
> [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > I have no doubt you can backup that 97% claim in some twisted misunderstood way, but it’s complete bollocks nontheless. [This](http://abcnews.go.com/WN/bps-dismal-safety-record/story?id=10763042)is where the 97% figure comes from: > [@](#): > > BP’s safety violations far outstrip its fellow oil companies. According to the Center for Public Integrity, in the last three years, BP refineries in Ohio and Texas have accounted for 97 percent of the “egregious, willful” violations handed out by the Occupational Safety and Health. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/27 "2010-06-10T20:34:27Z")
> [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > Everyone makes mistakes. No, a mistake is when you do everything reasonable to prevent a problem and it happens anyway. This is gross negligence. If Shell or Hess or Exxon or anyone else did this we’d be just as pissed off and they’d probably be boycotted. It’s easier to boycott BP than Halliburton or other players, since their name is on retail products. ---
**Author:** ![Terraplane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@Terraplane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terraplane)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/28 "2010-06-10T20:35:20Z")
> [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > They are taking responsibility. But you can’t expect these disasters never to happen. They just do. “Negligence and greed” is just over-emotive crap. > > I have no doubt you can backup that 97% claim in some twisted misunderstood way, but it’s complete bollocks nontheless. As for the Dubai thing… Here comes that twisted and misunderstood backup. We like to call them ‘facts.’ From [here](http://abcnews.go.com/WN/bps-dismal-safety-record/story?id=10763042). > [@](#): > > OSHA statistics show BP ran up 760 “egregious, willful” safety violations, while Sunoco and Conoco-Phillips each had eight, Citgo had two and Exxon had one comparable citation. 760 violations for BP. 8 for the next two worst companies, and 1 for Exxon. If that’s not negligent I have no clue what is. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/29 "2010-06-10T20:39:30Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#): > > BP does not own any retail stations in the United States. Not going to a BP station makes absolutely no difference to BP as it is not owned by BP. This is very interesting information. I believe I have been subconsciously boycotting my local BP station and given the fact that it is only hurting the nice folks who run the station, I guess I should be more logical in my actions. Thanks **LonghornDave**! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/30 "2010-06-10T20:40:52Z")
> [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > That it’s not American is meaningful. You probably have to be non-American to see this. I think you’re projecting. > [@](#): > > They are taking responsibility. Aside from all the corner-cutting that led to this accident. And not having a plan for how to deal with this kind of wreck if it occurred. That wasn’t very responsible, now was it? Oh, and they’ve never disclosed how much oil is leaking into the water because they want to keep their fines to a minimum. _Very_ helpful. What would you expect them to do? Mumble “that’s not our rig” and back out of the room? Yes, they’ve said they’re sorry, they’re paying some money to Gulf businesses, they’ve put their CEO on the talk show circuit, and spent money on ads. Most of that stuff is meaningless. I am sure they have been trying to fix the leak. They’re taking a huge PR hit and losing a lot of money. Making nice-nice and saying you’re sorry is all very fine, but it doesn’t undo anything they’ve done. > [@](#): > > But you can’t expect these disasters never to happen. They just do. “Negligence and greed” is just over-emotive crap. It’s accurate description of their pitiful safety record. Cut enough corners for a long enough time and this kind of thing is going to happen. Particularly since the regulatory agencies weren’t doing their job either. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/31 "2010-06-10T20:57:48Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > BP sells through franchisees who have paid money for the signage and have a long-term contract. You will hurt BP a little, but you will hurt the guy who owns the gas station a lot more. Odds are, he can’t get out of the franchise contract easily. Around here the BP stations are all getting rid of that signage and anything else with BP’s logo. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/32 "2010-06-10T21:05:11Z")
> [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > Go get furious at the American contractors, such as Haliburton, whose fault it was. > > It hasn’t gone unnoticed here that your administration constantly refers to it as British Petroleum, a name it hasn’t been trading under for over a decade. > > American companies have shit all over this planet on a scale that no one can even slightly live up to. And then they piss off. BP are doing everything they can here. Mr. Hayward, et tu? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/33 "2010-06-10T21:05:17Z")
> [@Terraplane](#): > > Here comes that twisted and misunderstood backup. We like to call them ‘facts.’ > > From [here](http://abcnews.go.com/WN/bps-dismal-safety-record/story?id=10763042). > > 760 violations for BP. 8 for the next two worst companies, and 1 for Exxon. If that’s not negligent I have no clue what is. What a ridiculous citation. Look at the **worldwide** situation. Try to demonstrate that as a company, BP has an inherently worse safety attitute. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/34 "2010-06-10T21:08:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Aside from all the corner-cutting that led to this accident. And not having a plan for how to deal with this kind of wreck if it occurred. That wasn’t very responsible, now was it? Oh, and they’ve never disclosed how much oil is leaking into the water because they want to keep their fines to a minimum. _Very_ helpful. > > What would you expect them to do? Mumble “that’s not our rig” and back out of the room? Yes, they’ve said they’re sorry, they’re paying some money to Gulf businesses, they’ve put their CEO on the talk show circuit, and spent money on ads. Most of that stuff is meaningless. I am sure they have been trying to fix the leak. They’re taking a huge PR hit and losing a lot of money. Making nice-nice and saying you’re sorry is all very fine, but it doesn’t undo anything they’ve done. > It’s accurate description of their pitiful safety record. Cut enough corners for a long enough time and this kind of thing is going to happen. Particularly since the regulatory agencies weren’t doing their job either. Corner cutting my arse. It’s probably impossible to actually conform to every single regulation. Anyway this argument is the same kind of one that… oh ffs, think about it! This idealism would mean there would never be train crashes, never plane crashes, never car crashes, never accidental firearm discharge, never building damages, never food poisoning etc etc etc etc etc etc **Accidents happen** ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/35 "2010-06-10T21:11:47Z")
> [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > Corner cutting my arse. It’s probably impossible to actually conform to every single regulation. Their safety record is much worse than other companies who do the same thing. “Accidents happen” is a statement about the world in general and not a defense in any specific case. Do you believe this is really an argument? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/36 "2010-06-10T21:15:48Z")
Of course I do. Demanding perfection is ridiculous. Gross recklessness should be the standard for getting angry with someone/some entity and I don’t see that here. And again, where is the real evidence for this alleged much worse safety record? Being worse in two random states is meaningless. Particularly as for all I know almost all of those citations could have come from one or two incidents. (I don’t believe this absolves them of their legal and moral liability to clean up to whatever the max that that law is, and considerably more if you lot would be a bit more greatful) ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/37 "2010-06-10T21:19:16Z")
> [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > Corner cutting my arse. It’s probably impossible to actually conform to every single regulation. Obviously, you’re probably right, it probably is impossible. As per the cite above, OSHA statistics show Sunoco and Conoco-Phillips each had eight “egregious and willful” violations, Citgo had two, and Exxon had one. So even the best are going to get popped now and then. BP had 760. Bit of a difference there, don’t you think? Let’s try this in a more visual way: 8 8 2 1 760 Anything there jump out at you? ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/38 "2010-06-10T21:27:29Z")
> [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > (I don’t believe this absolves them of their legal and moral liability to clean up to whatever the max that that law is, and considerably more if you lot would be a bit more greatful) If we’d be more grateful? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/39 "2010-06-10T21:27:48Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Obviously, you’re probably right, it probably is impossible. As per the cite above, OSHA statistics show Sunoco and Conoco-Phillips each had eight “egregious and willful” violations, Citgo had two, and Exxon had one. So even the best are going to get popped now and then. BP had 760. Bit of a difference there, don’t you think? > > Let’s try this in a more visual way: > > 8 > 8 > 2 > 1 > 760 > > Anything there jump out at you? Again, is this a reasonable, worldwide perspective? Or does it in fact stem from a large series of violations discovered after a couple of incidents, and it’s essentially BP’s bad luck that the latter happened. I don’t know the answer to that, but it sounds a lot more likely to me. I am _sure_, though, that a worldwide perspective will not show any of the major oil companies to be terribly different to one another, partly because they’re so incestuous 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/40 "2010-06-10T21:28:54Z")
> [@C3](#): > > If we’d be more grateful? :dubious: BP has very kindly said it will compensate fully everyone affected by this spill, while as I understand it damages are theoretically capped to some piddling sum. What the hell else more do you want? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671.md?page=3)