# BP Boycott **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 10, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671 "2010-06-10T16:43:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/41 "2010-06-10T21:28:56Z")
> [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > Of course I do. Demanding perfection is ridiculous. A false choice, since I didn’t demand perfection. If you read the cite you’d get the full picture here. By the way, the name of the company is irrelevant. It’s just marketing. BP stood for British Petroleum for ages. Now it’s the name by itself. Kentucky Fried Chicken and Philip Morris changed their names, too, but it’s bullshit “rebranding.” The market department said “Petroleum” and “Fried” conjured up bad thoughts and “Philip Morris” was associated with lying about cancer. A lot of people still call the companies by their original names. It’s not some kind of nationalistic thing. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/42 "2010-06-10T21:32:24Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > A false choice, since I didn’t demand perfection. If you read the cite you’d get the full picture here. > > By the way, the name of the company is irrelevant. It’s just marketing. BP stood for British Petroleum for ages. Now it’s the name by itself. Kentucky Fried Chicken and Philip Morris changed their names, too, but it’s bullshit “rebranding.” The market department said “Petroleum” and “Fried” conjured up bad thoughts and “Philip Morris” was associated with lying about cancer. A lot of people still call the companies by their original names. It’s not some kind of nationalistic thing. Actually it changed its name because it merged with Amoco. Maybe Obama should be calling them “American Oil Company”. Makes just as much sense. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/43 "2010-06-10T21:33:48Z")
> [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > Maybe Obama should be calling them “American Oil Company”. Makes just as much sense. Of course, it wouldn’t make any sense, because the company’s name is BP, which is short for British Petroleum. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/44 "2010-06-10T21:35:31Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Of course, it wouldn’t make any sense, because the company’s name is BP, which is short for British Petroleum. So? That’s historical. In the same it was BP Amoco, which was a merger, therefore it was previously Amoco, which was American Oil Company. That is precisely the same logic you’re using. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/45 "2010-06-10T21:38:30Z")
> [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > Or does it in fact stem from a large series of violations discovered after a couple of incidents, and it’s essentially BP’s bad luck that the latter happened. If it’s anything like the coal industry, violations are normally discovered during regular inspections. Massey didn’t ring up all their violations because they had a mine explosion; they have a long and consistent history of getting far more violations than the industry average. It seems to me to be much more likely that BP is the Massey of oil. In support of this, I’ll offer these quotes (also from the link with the number of violations: > [@](#): > > After a 2005 BP refinery explosion in Texas City, Texas that killed 15 people and injured 180, a Justice Department investigation found that the explosion was caused by “improperly released vapor and liquid.” Several procedures required by the Clean Air Act to reduce the possibility of just such an explosion either were not followed, or had not been established in the first place. > > BP admitted that its written procedures to ensure its equipment’s safety were inadequate, and that it had failed to inform employees of known fire and explosion risks. The company paid $50 million in criminal fines in connection with that disaster, and acknowledged violating the Clean Air Act. And a bit later: > [@](#): > > Yet BP never fixed the problems in Texas City. Just last October, OSHA fined the company $87 million because it has failed to correct the safety problems at the rebuilt Texas City plant. That represented the largest fine in OSHA history. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/46 "2010-06-10T21:39:03Z")
> [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > So? That’s historical. In the same it was BP Amoco, which was a merger, therefore it was previously Amoco, which was American Oil Company. > > That is precisely the same logic you’re using. You’re not making sense. The BP in the name comes from British Petroleum. That’s why Obama’s calling it British Petroleum. That’s all there is to it. [edit] Not that this is important compared to the safety record or the other issues. I don’t know why you care about it at all, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/47 "2010-06-10T21:48:14Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > If it’s anything like the coal industry, violations are normally discovered during regular inspections. Massey didn’t ring up all their violations because they had a mine explosion; they have a long and consistent history of getting far more violations than the industry average. > > It seems to me to be much more likely that BP is the Massey of oil. > > In support of this, I’ll offer these quotes (also from the link with the number of violations: > And a bit later: I can’t work out how to use [this crap](http://www.osha.gov/pls/imis/industry.html) but if you would like to then I think you should be able to do the analysis there. What I **am** certain of is that the cites given so far are completely inadequete. In fact, even the above will be pretty shitty, but it would at least be interesting to see both incident and violation statistics for all the oil companies in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/48 "2010-06-10T21:50:23Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You’re not making sense. The BP in the name comes from British Petroleum. That’s why Obama’s calling it British Petroleum. It’s a historical name. There’s no reason to be using it any more than it would make sense for him to call New York New Amsterdam. > [@Marley23](#): > > That’s all there is to it. [edit] Not that this is important compared to the safety record or the other issues. I don’t know why you care about it at all, actually. Two reasons. Firstly I don’t like to see such naked spinning for political gain, and secondly because this could do long term damage to relations between my country and yours. And not to mention the possible damage to BP. ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/49 "2010-06-10T21:53:45Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > So if all the BP service stations went out of business, that wouldn’t make a difference to BP corporate’s bottom line? > > Shoot, I gotta get into that line of business where profit is made without selling any product. The stations with BP’s name on them are not owned by BP. They also do not necessarily sell gasoline made from BP crude oil. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/50 "2010-06-10T22:03:58Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > The campaigns to boycott BP as a result of the oil spill are simply a misdirected revenge effort that will do more harm than good. > > The vast majority of the people affected as a result of the boycott, stockholders… are simply not responsible for the damage. Of course they are! Who the fuck else would be responsible? The stockholders elected a board of directors to represent their interests, and the board failed to make sure that BP had adequate provisions for dealing with an oil spill. The stockholders took a risk investing, and in return they got a reward that exceeded other market alternatives. You can’t reap the rewards and not suffer the result of the risks. Same with LA and other states in the Gulf of Mexico. They pressed for off-shore drilling, they reaped the rewards of jobs, and now they can pay for it with their own damn money and what they can get from BP. Why the hell should those of us who live in states with respect for the environment pay for t? ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/51 "2010-06-10T22:05:49Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You’re not making sense. The BP in the name comes from British Petroleum. That’s why Obama’s calling it British Petroleum. That’s all there is to it. He is correct that the name is no longer British Petroleum. Their legal name is BP p.l.c. It hasn’t been British Petroleum since 1998. I don’t think it is a big deal to call them British Petroleum since it is such a recent name, but it is sort of like calling HSBC the Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corporation. ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/52 "2010-06-10T22:11:08Z")
Those thinking that the shareholders should not be punished are off base. That’s exactly who should be punished along with any directly responsible employees as well as management along the chain of command that oversaw this operations including along the way up to the CEO and Chairman of the Board. Note that I am not stating that any of them are criminally responsible. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/53 "2010-06-10T22:41:42Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#): > > He is correct that the name is no longer British Petroleum. Their legal name is BP p.l.c. It hasn’t been British Petroleum since 1998. I know. I was saying the name BP clearly comes from the old name, and British Petroleum is likely the name most people here are familiar with. [Moderating] > [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > And not to mention the possible damage to BP. While it’s fascinating to have someone defend BP to such an extent, I’m coming to the conclusion you don’t believe what you are saying and are trying to provoke people. If you want to change my opinion, you need to start coming up with some better arguments and cites instead of shouting with large text and insisting the cites of other posters are inadequate without offering other cites. (‘Here’s a link to OSHA’s database, find my cite for me’ does not count as citing your argument.) [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/54 "2010-06-10T22:47:11Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > OTOH, House Minority Leader John Boehner, does appear to be[pushing for a taxpayer bailout of BP](http://www.examiner.com/x-5738-Political-Buzz-Examiner~y2010m6d10-House-Minority-Leader-John-Boehner-ROH-endorses-taxpayer-bailout-for-BP), even though it’s a foreign corporation. > I think that’s going a bit too far in the direction _opposite_ a BP boycott. Ever wonder who Boehner works for? I would guess it is not the people. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/55 "2010-06-10T22:57:02Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#): > > Those thinking that the shareholders should not be punished are off base. That’s exactly who should be punished. I disagree. Certainly I feel that the shareholders should bear the costs of this disaster, to the full extent, as well as any fines to the corporation within the law. And I agree with the push to halt the issue of dividends while money needs to be secured for the cleanup, but punitive action towards the shareholders on the part of the public goes beyond a sense of fair play and counter productive to boot. In any case its quite apparent that the boycott simply will not affect the shareholders at all. ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/56 "2010-06-10T23:10:15Z")
> [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > BP has very kindly said it will compensate fully everyone affected by this spill, while as I understand it damages are theoretically capped to some piddling sum. What the hell else more do you want? [Initially](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/06/10/2010-06-10_gulf_oil_spill_victims_mad_at_bp_for_delays_in_compensation.html), BP only wanted to pay out $2500 to deckhands and $5000 to boat owners. The only reason they’ve deigned to pay more compensation is because of legal and public pressure put on them. Now, even though they’ve said they’re going to pay people whose livelihood is being affected by this, payments have yet to be seen and people are being left in the lurch. There’s nothing “very kind” about that at all. They have a legal and moral obligation to fix this - people shouldn’t have to be “grateful” that a company who has done them harm is compensating them for that, especially when they’re having to fight tooth and nail to get the compensation. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/57 "2010-06-10T23:13:35Z")
It doesn’t really matter the nationality of the company, so long as the population are happy to have cheap oil pissed into their upturned grateful mouths ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/58 "2010-06-10T23:14:32Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > I disagree. Certainly I feel that the shareholders should bear the costs of this disaster, to the full extent, as well as any fines to the corporation within the law. And I agree with the push to halt the issue of dividends while money needs to be secured for the cleanup, but punitive action towards the shareholders on the part of the public goes beyond a sense of fair play and counter productive to boot. > In any case its quite apparent that the boycott simply will not affect the shareholders at all. I don’t mean there should be some sort of additional punitive action taken against the shareholders other than losing the value of their stock. Also, I think a boycott is a meaningless concept for a company like BP; people don’t interact directly with BP. You may as well also call for a boycott of Transocean and Halliburton. What does that mean people are supposed to do? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/59 "2010-06-10T23:32:29Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#): > > I don’t mean there should be some sort of additional punitive action taken against the shareholders other than losing the value of their stock. Also, I think a boycott is a meaningless concept for a company like BP; people don’t interact directly with BP. You may as well also call for a boycott of Transocean and Halliburton. What does that mean people are supposed to do? A bunch of people shorting BP stock would probably put the hurt where it belongs; but of course this is risky. Marketplace has had a bunch of stories on whether BP can survive. The text of the story mentions their immense profitability, but the come-ons are grabbers. While I’m sure this is done to draw in listeners, it is far better punishment than boycotting gas stations. We used to have Exxon franchisees around me, and some of them hated Exxon’s guts more than any environmentalist. They finally managed to get out from under Exxon’s thumb. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/60 "2010-06-10T23:34:40Z")
> [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > Anyway this argument is the same kind of one that… oh ffs, think about it! This idealism would mean there would never be train crashes, never plane crashes, never car crashes, never accidental firearm discharge, never building damages, never food poisoning etc etc etc etc etc etc > > **Accidents happen** When you crash your car due to black ice or equipment failure right after service, then you can say “accidents happen.” When you crash your car while texting or after having five double scotches, then you can’t. BP, and the bozos who worked under their supervision, were Drilling While Intoxicated. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671.md?page=4)