# BP Boycott **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 10, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671 "2010-06-10T16:43:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/81 "2010-06-11T02:55:51Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Oh, and they’ve never disclosed how much oil is leaking into the water because they want to keep their fines to a minimum. _Very_ helpful. Speaking of which, here’s this from the New York Times: [“A government panel on Thursday doubled its estimate of the amount of oil that had gushed for weeks from the out-of-control BP well even before the latest attempt to cap it.”](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/11/us/11spill.html?hp) And building on **Frank** ’s point earlier about BP getting the biggest OSHA fine ever: [“The U.S. Department of Labor’s Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) today announced it is issuing $87,430,000 in proposed penalties to BP Products North America Inc. for the company’s failure to correct potential hazards faced by employees. The fine is the largest in OSHA’s history. The prior largest total penalty, $21 million, was issued in 2005, also against BP.”](http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=NEWS_RELEASES&p_id=16674) ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/82 "2010-06-11T02:59:21Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Some oil experts last night said the well could spew for 20 years., if it can’t be stopped. That would seem to be a lot of oil to me. If the well remained uncapped, it very well may spew for 20 years. However, the rate will decline. Here’s a simple guess on how much the well would be worth. Assumptions 1. Initial rate of 20,000 barrels a day declining 10% per year (likely would decline at a much fast rate) 2. Produces for 20 years (based on your statement) 3. Price of oil is $80 4. $10 lifting cost 5. No taxes (obviously incorrect) 6. No capital expenditures required (obviously incorrect) 7. 80% 8/8ths net revenue interest (it will be somewhere in this ballpark) 8. BP has 65% working interest (we know this) 9. 10% discount rate That would result in the well having a present value of $1.38 billion. If you think any of my assumptions are unreasonable then do the calculations for yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/83 "2010-06-11T03:00:15Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > And there was I thinking that in post #53 from Marley23 said: > I’m not sure whether you’d call that “insinuation”. Personally I would have thought that was a direct statement from somebody who’s both cluey and usually pretty careful with how they chose their words. I appreciate the compliment, but I was not insinuating anything. I was making a factual statement about the origin of BP’s name because **Happy Poster** was saying that politicians are using the old name for scapegoating reasons - which was a point I disagreed with. I don’t think any single company is to blame here (and I already said so upthread). Apportioning blame by nationality would be stupid. These mistakes were made by individuals. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/84 "2010-06-11T03:06:42Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Some oil experts last night said the well could spew for 20 years., if it can’t be stopped. That would seem to be a lot of oil to me. It is a lot of oil, no question. A metric shitload of oil. BP is spending a metric shitload of money, as they should be, in trying to stop it. (The relief wells, by the way, are to plug the well, not to draw on it.) Your response in no way refutes **Longhorn Dave** ’s assertation that BP is spending more in a week on dealing with the catastrophe than they would gain in a year of tapping it as a normal, common (or garden variety) producing well, especially when you add in that BP is going to have to compensate pretty near everyone who has spent money on the disaster, or who has lost money due to it. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/85 "2010-06-11T03:29:13Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Were you joking about Halliburton not being an American company, **gonzomax**? Halliburton was founded in Oklahoma in 1919. Its headquarters officially moved to Dubai in 2007 but before that it was based in Houston, and it’s not like they pulled up stakes and left Texas. Is it American to set up headquarters in foreign lands to avoid paying American taxes.? They can not pull that crap and call themselves an American company. Like Transocean, do you think they really are a Cayman Islands company? There are buildings in the Caymans that are mail drops for thousands of American businesses. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/86 "2010-06-11T03:36:59Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Is it American to set up headquarters in foreign lands to avoid paying American taxes.? American as apple pie. If you’re asking me if it is patriotic, all I can say is that I don’t care. Transocean was founded in the U.S. but acquired by a Norwegian company decades ago so they do at least have some claim to being a foreign company- although they are obviously in the Caymans as a tax shelter. I don’t see why the nationalities of these companies matter. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/87 "2010-06-11T03:49:43Z")
> [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > because this could do long term damage to relations between my country and yours. What is coverage of this event like in Britain? Whatever it is, though, I find it hard to believe that it would be framed as an attack on all things British (aside from the tabloids, of course, because any country’s tabloids would _love_ that kind of angle). Anyway, are you asserting that BP did not contribute to this accident in any significant way by either action or inaction, up to and including any lobbying they might’ve done to lighten the regulatory/inspection pressures on them? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/88 "2010-06-11T04:38:26Z")
> [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > BP has very kindly said it will compensate fully everyone affected by this spill, while as I understand it damages are theoretically capped to some piddling sum. What the hell else more do you want? Look dude. BP has replaced Al Qaeda as the world’s Public Enemy #1. The window dressing is that BP has caused far more damage than AQ could have dreamed, and, remarkably, has presented itself to be far less believable in their statements. What do I want? For Uncle Sam to lance the Wyrm through its heart. Then, to feast upon the corpse until I vomit! :mad: Now, what if this were a koan? The Wyrm is BP getting killed, that much is obvious. But feast on the corpse? I think that means seize it’s assets and let those pay to compensate for BP’s delays and shortfalls, starting probably next year. Nothing I have seen suggests there is any evidence that BP recognizes this to be a 25-100+ year compensation package. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/89 "2010-06-11T04:44:14Z")
(Sob!) You leave BP alone! It works so hard, just gives and gives and gives, and all you bastards can do is tear it down! (sob, blubber) You bastards! ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/90 "2010-06-11T04:46:52Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > While it’s fascinating to have someone defend BP to such an extent, I’m coming to the conclusion you don’t believe what you are saying and are trying to provoke people. If you want to change my opinion, you need to start coming up with some better arguments and cites instead of shouting with large text and insisting the cites of other posters are inadequate without offering other cites. (‘Here’s a link to OSHA’s database, find my cite for me’ does not count as citing your argument.) > > [/Moderating] Well, congratulations, until you withdraw such an asinine mod statement you’ve made it impossible for me to contribute any further in this thread past this post, but to address the issues in it: 1. Of course I want BP to do well. Like anyone else with a sensibly managed long term pension porfolio I am a part owner, indirectly. They are a major component of the FTSE. 2. It was not offered as a way of citing my argument, but as a way of pointing out that the OSHA cite on its own is meaningless unless put into some context, which I tried to do briefly but failed. Anyone wanting to use those numbers to convince any thinking person of anything does have to put them in context though. I could have sworn there was a bit more to your post but tapatalk seems to have removed it; in any case I won’t post again in this thread unless you withdraw your bizarre insinuatuion, which a better man would frankly apologise for. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/91 "2010-06-11T04:52:58Z")
But I didn’t do anything! ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/92 "2010-06-11T04:59:19Z")
But you’ve done all you can, as has POTUS. You should be chuffed. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/93 "2010-06-11T05:00:04Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > (Sob!) You leave BP alone! It works so hard, just gives and gives and gives, and all you bastards can do is tear it down! (sob, blubber) You bastards! Sorry **elucidator** , I didn’t realize you felt that way. Tell you what, let’s get a milkshake instead. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/94 "2010-06-11T05:04:52Z")
> [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > Well, congratulations, until you withdraw such an asinine mod statement you’ve made it impossible for me to contribute any further in this thread past this post, but to address the issues in it: Not going to happen. I did give you another option: make an argument and support it with cites. It’s your choice if you don’t want to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/95 "2010-06-11T06:16:27Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > American as apple pie. If you’re asking me if it is patriotic, all I can say is that I don’t care. Transocean was founded in the U.S. but acquired by a Norwegian company decades ago so they do at least have some claim to being a foreign company- although they are obviously in the Caymans as a tax shelter. I don’t see why the nationalities of these companies matter. Sort of Transocean is and pretty much always has been a Norwegian company. A US company Sonat Offshore Drilling did purchase Transocean (after a bidding war with Reading and Bates) and then called the combined outfit Transocean Offshore. Then in 1997 Transocean merged with Sedco Forex to become Transocean Sedco Forex . Sedco was the South Eastern Drilling Company, as US drilling contractor, which was merged with Forex Neptune ( a French outfit made from a merger of Forex and Neptune) when they were purchased by Schlumberger to become Sedco Forex. After the merger TSF (Transocean Sedco Forex) purchased Reading & Bates (the same who Sonat was in the bidding war with, and R&B had not long prior to that purchased Falcon Drilling and were Falcon Reading and Bates for a few months). They may have been called TSF R&B for a while who knows. Then later they bought Global Santa Fe (who were a merger of Global drilling and Santa Fe Drilling). At some point sanity was restored with a name change to just Transocean (although you may see it referred to as ADTI , just don’t ask) as TSFFRBGSF in its full form would have necessitated the off shore crews to wear comedy sombreros as head protection so the name could be written on them around the edge of the brim. I may have forgotten a couple of other purchases, it all gets fuzzy after a while. So where TO is from is not a simple question, what is simple is that they are large and currently registered in Switzerland, not the Caymans. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/96 "2010-06-11T06:36:31Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#): > > Seems ridiculously risky to short a stock that has already lost 45% of its value and will likely not pay anywhere close to what they have lost in market cap. They could have a fine three times bigger than the biggest in history plus pay all cleanup costs and still not come close to the market cap that they have lost (~$84 billion). And soon after I typed that I heard the news stories today about how much they’ve lost already. And stories about their dividend. And the nice ironic quote from investor relations, I guess, saying they have no idea about events that could be responsible for the loss of shareholder value. We often hear that regulation is unnecessary because management would never be stupid enough to do something to destroy shareholder value. This is yet another counterexample to that. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/97 "2010-06-11T06:52:51Z")
Interesting how people still take their lead from emoting politicians - until Obama started with the personal attacks this was reasonably balanced. We’ll be talking about Old Europe and the British equivalent of cheese-eating surrender monkeys within the week. Get those USA flags out people, you still have 25% of the worlds oil consumption to use every single day. ---
**Author:** ![Random\_Design](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58f4c7/32.png) [@Random\_Design](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random_Design)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/98 "2010-06-11T07:37:44Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Aftter that, with a thorough investigation we should go after those individuals who are directly responsible for the leak as well as they delays in the cleanup. Why the wait? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/99 "2010-06-11T07:43:33Z")
> [@marley23](#): > > not going to happen. I did give you another option: Make an argument and support it with cites. It’s your choice if you don’t want to do that. **its you that is making the argument about bp being more unsafe. I have explained why i do not accept the cite. I have also explained what could be done to make me accept the cite.** ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671/100 "2010-06-11T11:01:20Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > By the way, the name of the company is irrelevant. It’s just marketing. BP stood for British Petroleum for ages. Now it’s the name by itself. Kentucky Fried Chicken and Philip Morris changed their names, too, but it’s bullshit “rebranding.” The market department said “Petroleum” and “Fried” conjured up bad thoughts and “Philip Morris” was associated with lying about cancer. A lot of people still call the companies by their original names. It’s not some kind of nationalistic thing. I caught a commercial just yesterday promoting TD as “America’s most convenient bank” which tickles me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bp-boycott/542671.md?page=6)