# Brace Yourself: More Abu Ghraib Photos **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 23, 2005, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brace-yourself-more-abu-ghraib-photos/313776 "2005-07-23T07:24:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2005, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brace-yourself-more-abu-ghraib-photos/313776/1 "2005-07-23T07:24:02Z")
Difference is, these are the ones they _won’t_ let you see. > [@](#): > > Signaling the worst revelations are yet to come, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said the additional photos show “acts that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhuman.” […] > > The unreleased images show American soldiers beating one prisoner almost to death, apparently raping a female prisoner, acting inappropriately with a dead body, and taping Iraqi guards raping young boys, according to NBC News. > > Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina said the scandal is “going to get worse” and warned that the most “disturbing” revelations haven’t yet been made public… _Boston Herald,_ May 8th, 2004 (All quotes available through Daily Kos) [http://www.dailykos.com/](http://www.dailykos.com/) Today was the day they were supposed to be released. But it seems that just today, by an astonishing coincidence! they have discovered a technicality of some sort that gives them legal grounds to withold them… > [@](#): > > …based on an entirely new argument: they are now requesting a 7(F) exemption from disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act to withhold law enforcement-related information in order to protect the physical safety of individuals… Revoltingly transparent, like a wart-hog ugly skank in a lacy _pegnoir_. Had the pictures for months, tied themselves in knots trying to find a legal rationale not to release them and just today…Friday, of course!..they discover to their evident surprise that hey! these might endanger somebody’s “physical safety”. Guys, forget it. Get it over with. Nobody believes you anymore, don’t you see that? If they aren’t as bad as Rummy says, don’t let the imagination run wild. And if they are, you’re just making it worse, letting it fester. Sweet Og, when will they ever fucking learn. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2005, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brace-yourself-more-abu-ghraib-photos/313776/2 "2005-07-23T07:35:32Z")
They’ll only learn when willfully ignorant, crap buying, bullshit-swallowing, fairy-tale believing, entirely credulous and utterly backward American sheep stop voting for them. And that will be far, far too late (maybe 500 years or more, if ever). ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2005, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brace-yourself-more-abu-ghraib-photos/313776/3 "2005-07-23T11:48:36Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Sweet Og, when will they ever fucking learn. after we stop hating America ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2005, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brace-yourself-more-abu-ghraib-photos/313776/4 "2005-07-23T12:12:49Z")
So, explain something to me please. Was private England guilty of these more disturbing crimes, or do we only prosecute people when photos of their crimes are released? ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2005, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brace-yourself-more-abu-ghraib-photos/313776/5 "2005-07-23T12:52:55Z")
You’re confused. It’s not the actions that were photographed, it’s _that_ the actions were photographed. That’s what Rumsfeld is so outraged about. That’s why cameras are forbidden but torture isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2005, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brace-yourself-more-abu-ghraib-photos/313776/6 "2005-07-23T15:16:13Z")
And once again, the people in charge will deny everything, launch personal attacks on anyone who has a problem with this sort of behavior, and keep on keepin’ on. ---
**Author:** ![Danalan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@Danalan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danalan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2005, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brace-yourself-more-abu-ghraib-photos/313776/7 "2005-07-23T15:45:11Z")
These photos & movies document raping of women and sodomy of young boys. We’ve known about it for a year, and still there’s no real outrage in this country. The rest of the world knows about it, and trust me, they’re not happy. That’s what this administration (and everyone who supports them) stands for: The systematic rape of children. Words fail me. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2005, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brace-yourself-more-abu-ghraib-photos/313776/8 "2005-07-23T16:24:38Z")
> [@Danalan](#): > > That’s what this administration (and everyone who supports them) stands for: > > The systematic rape of children. Do you really believe this? Please include an actual Yes or No in your answer. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2005, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brace-yourself-more-abu-ghraib-photos/313776/9 "2005-07-23T17:57:24Z")
> [@Danalan](#): > > These photos & movies document raping of women and sodomy of young boys. > > We’ve known about it for a year, and still there’s no real outrage in this country. The rest of the world knows about it, and trust me, they’re not happy. > > That’s what this administration (and everyone who supports them) stands for: > > The systematic rape of children. > > Words fail me. Let’s get one thing straight here: I hate Bush, I’m a card carrying member of the ACLU. These types of comments do nothing usefull for our cause. Particularly your use of the words “systematic” (deliberately planned) “and everyone who supports them.” Potential converts from the Bush camp won’t be won over by being told they support raping children. It’s shit like this that causes fence sitters to jump the fence in the wrong direction! Can’t we liberals get that? I’m willing to believe Bush was grossly negligent in this Abu Ghraib matter, but even I refuse to believe that he and his advisors got into a smoke filled room, twirling their mustaches and discussing the finer points of raping women and children. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2005, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brace-yourself-more-abu-ghraib-photos/313776/10 "2005-07-23T18:09:29Z")
I made a longer reply in the other thread about this. Bush, Cheney, Ashcroft, Gonzales etc DID get into a flap (which was quickly forgotten) about how to “legally” use torture. Apparently (obviously) it is policy. Apparently, Bush is fighting to keep this hush hush and out of the news. SInce it has been going on for a while now, and since Bush wants to hide it, what the hell do you think? As commander in chief, he could have simply issued an order that all this had to stop immediately. He never did. Now he is trying to bury the evidence. Freedom? No Good christian ideals? No. Covering up war crimes, torture, rape, murder? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Danalan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@Danalan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danalan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2005, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brace-yourself-more-abu-ghraib-photos/313776/11 "2005-07-23T21:11:35Z")
Maybe systematic is the wrong word. Should I have used ‘routine’, ‘occasional’, or ‘government endorsed’? Perhaps you’d like to argue semantics, but I’m too outraged. There’s no way, and no real reason, to put a pretty face on the actions of this administration. Your complaint is that the truth might hurt the feelings of the fools who support this evil. You know, I bet there were people who thought the same thing about Germany in the 1930’s. I’m sorry, but “don’t rock the boat, you’ll hurt our cause” is a loser’s game. If they can’t handle the truth, fuck 'em. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2005, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brace-yourself-more-abu-ghraib-photos/313776/12 "2005-07-23T23:47:44Z")
> [@Danalan](#): > > You know, I bet there were people who thought the same thing about Germany in the 1930’s. I’m sorry, but “don’t rock the boat, you’ll hurt our cause” is a loser’s game. Let me ask you a quick question here. How do YOU know whats going on at Abu Ghraib? Could it be because the information is, well, available to our press and you, um, read it somewhere? Now, about the Germany thing…I’d say its quite plausable that tehre WERE folks in Germany even in the 1940’s who didn’t really know what was going on. In fact, my guess is while the majority MIGHT have had a clue what was going on, it was more from rumor and hearsay than actual facts. See the difference? Probably not but I had to try… As to the OP…well, we’ve know about Abu Ghraib and that ‘bad things’ happened there for quite a while. Obviously these new pictures are from the same events before…they aren’t new pictures in the sense that ‘bad things’ are STILL happening there. From what I understand the publishing of even the lesser pictures was enough to get changes made. I’m going to need some convincing though that the rape and beatings near to death were “systematic” or even “government endorsed”. Oh, I have no doubt that torture was endorsed by the government, and thats bad enough though I suppose its understandable and perhaps even necessary (depending on what one means by ‘torture’ but thats a whole other can of worms), but though I loath the Bush administration I find it extremely hard to believe that they officially sanctioned rape, let alone rape of children. I’d need some fairly extra-ordinary proof to go with that (to my mind) extra-ordinary claim. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2005, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brace-yourself-more-abu-ghraib-photos/313776/13 "2005-07-24T00:13:13Z")
How long until Rush Limbaugh (R - Drug Addict) pontificates that these latest photos are no worse than what goes on at a typical fraternity initiation? I say sometime early next week. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2005, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brace-yourself-more-abu-ghraib-photos/313776/14 "2005-07-24T00:19:03Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I’m going to need some convincing though that the rape and beatings near to death were “systematic” or even “government endorsed”. Oh, I have no doubt that torture was endorsed by the government, and thats bad enough though I suppose its understandable and perhaps even necessary (depending on what one means by ‘torture’ but thats a whole other can of worms), but though I loath the Bush administration I find it extremely hard to believe that they officially sanctioned rape, let alone rape of children. I’d need some fairly extra-ordinary proof to go with that (to my mind) extra-ordinary claim. > > -XT The rapes were denounced last year by several groups. What I see is an effort, if not to condone, then to outsource it and then deny it. > **[Remember Abu Ghraib?](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2004/08/remember-abu-ghraib/)** > > Why has the media slacked off in covering the Iraqi prison abuse scandal? More on the outsourcing of torture here: [http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?050214fa\_fact6](http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?050214fa_fact6)