Never heard of Renfro, never heard of any of his movies, didn’t know he was dead, and never knew he was alive.
I don’t think 50 to 1 is all that much of an exaggeration. I’ve seen 3 of Brad Renfro’s movies, 2 of them being from when he was just a child. I’ve heard of 2 more than I haven’t seen. He has no major award nominations. Until this thread, I thought he was one of the kids on Home Improvement. Which probably would have made him more famous than he is.
I’ve seen 4 of Heath Ledger’s movies and heard of 6 more of them. More importantly from a fame standpoint, I’ve heard of several of them as being projects involving Heath Ledger. He’s got an Oscar nomination for a highly respected film, as well as a bunch of sillier awards from MTV / Teen choice which indicates a pretty broad appeal.
I find ‘Self’ appearances to be a pretty good indicator of relative fame, and if you check their IMDB page, Ledger has 40 appearances as ‘self’, while Renfro has 1.
Even in death, I heard that Brad Renfro had died, and thought ‘That kid from Home Improvement? That’s too bad.’ and never really heard anything about it again until Ledger died and Renfro started getting minor mentions in stories about Ledger. Ledger’s death, on the other hand, has been major news everywhere.
Of course, the final arbitrator of such disagreement is always Google, which indicates that the true ratio of fame between the two is 15 to 1.
Leave out the movie that made him one of the most famous actors of his generation and he would be more famous than Renfro by a smalller margin. Good point.
We know that he was a long-time sufferer of insomnia. We know that he had pneumonia from his shoot in London (they had just finished filming outdoors night scenes in the few days prior to his return to New York). We know that he had just finished work on a very grueling, physically and mentally demanding role (The Joker) where he was probably still nursing aches and pains (body and soul), so there’s three right there. When you have multiple conditions you don’t just take something to try to ease one of them, you try to ease all of them. Hence, multiple medications.
No, it isn’t, but Ledger had multiple doctors. He was a traveling actor. He had been filming in Chicago on Dark Knight and had a doctor there. He had been filming in London, and had a different doctor there. Then he returned to New York, where he had a third doctor. He was going to be heading to Vancouver for set shoots in a few days and he would have had another doctor there. He could have gotten the painkillers from Chicago, the anti-anxiety medication from New York (he’d probably been taking those from before he went to Chicago) and then he could have gotten the sedatives from London. I don’t know, but we’ll find out.
There is an investigation into these things by the DEA and we will find out, but it makes sense to me that one doctor did not prescribe all the drugs and that they probably weren’t told about the other medications obtained from other doctors.
Not to mention the movie that gave him a Best Actor Academy Award nomination AND a Best Actor Golden Globe nomination, AND a Best Actor Screen Actors Guild nomination AND and… well, LOTS of awards nominations from critics, Guilds and popular entertainment venues. Even if a person hadn’t seen one of his movies before then, he was all over the place, first with the release of Brokeback Mountain, then with the awards season. I realize many people don’t pay attention to either movies or awards, but he really was ubiquitous around that time on TV, print, posters, billboards, everywhere (much to his extreme discomfort…he was not a publicity-seeking actor). I even heard a Brokeback Mountain ad on the radio while I was shopping for groceries. I don’t remember what his line was but I smiled and thought “ah Ennis” though of course, by then I had seen the movie multiple times and a regular person wouldn’t know that was Heath Ledger, but my point is that with the release of the movie and the awards hoopla that followed, he was a presence.
But yeah, I guess if you discount his most famous movie that got him famous, his career would be comparable to Brad Redfro’s. But I still don’t get it. Why would you (Little Nemo, not TWDuke) leave out Brokeback anyway? If that had been the only movie Ledger had ever made in America, it was so huge it would still count.
I forgot to add something. Doctors (not involved with Ledger) said that many medications stay in the system for awhile before leaving the body, so he wouldn’t have had to take all the medications at the same time. He might have taken something the day before, then something right before going to sleep, then something when he woke up to go to the bathroom…any scenario like that makes sense too. Anything Ledger took in the prior 24-48 hours could have all interacted within his system to make a deadly cocktail.
How’s coke? I know so many ‘straight’ actors who do it I’m not even sure if it counts.
This not being the Pit prevents me from saying what I think of you, but suffice to say it’s not good. That video was debunked almost immediately after it surfaced. Several people have seen it and it’s a non-starter.
First, although there is cocaine present at the part and other people are snorting, it does NOT show Heath Ledger doing cocaine or any drugs. If that makes him suspect then it makes everyone who’s ever been to a party where other people were doing cocaine are suspect of being druggies.
Second, though the video does show Ledger saying he used to toke up (pot, not cocaine) he ALSO says immediately after line that he quit using pot because of his daughter. Convenient that the sensational teaser spots didn’t include that.
Third, the video is TWO FUCKING YEARS OLD and was sold for big bucks because the eel-felching piece of santorum who sold it knew that the media wasn’t going to find anything else and would be desperate for any bit of sensationalist bullshit they could find.
What a scummy world we live in that people go out of their way to tarnish the name of a decent, hard-working, shy, self-effacing guy. Sometimes I know how Daniel Plainview feels.
Hydrocodone is for mild to moderate pain, it’s also an anti-tussive (cough suppressant). I have a bottle of hydrocodone still from when I had pneumonia in July. So it is conceivable that he was given the hydrocodone for a cough possibly from the pneumonia he had. Doxylamine is an anti-histamine that is also used as a sleep aid but it’s also used as an antihistamine, which you might need for sneezing which you might have from a really bad cold or maybe even pneumonia. There’s two drugs right there explained away by his pneumonia.
There is nothing to prove that this wasn’t an accidental abuse as it has been ruled. He had no known history of drug abuse. He had a good career so far and ahead of him and a young daughter that he was crazy about.
On the other hand Brad Renfro’s death has been ruled as caused by a heroin overdose. He intentionally abused drugs. He had been abusing drugs and having run ins with the law for several years. His career was over and barring a major turnaround in his life it was likely to stay that way.
Ledger’s death was a shock, Renfro’s was probably an expected eventuality. The shocking stuff tends to get talked about more. The expected, not so much.
Seriously, I understand that a lot of people enjoy thinking the worst of celebrities, but this is beginning to look like a personal vendetta.
I don’t know if the guy was a drug addict or not, but the drugs on that list are all popular drugs to abuse. If he was getting them from multiple sources, that is commonly known as doctor shopping. Combine that with the fact that he was, by all reports, a depressed individual, and it leads me to the conclusion that he was self-medicating.
I’m not saying he meant to OD or anything like that, but I don’t think the guy was naive enough to not realize he was messing with some serious shit. I’ve known a lot of pill poppers and these are all drugs that are highly coveted by addicts.
Again, I don’t think less of anyone who uses drugs. It’s their own business. But the simplest explanation for the whole Heath Ledger overdose is that he was a user who was careless in what drugs he mixed together. None of us can know exactly what was going on, but that is my guess.
Then keep it out of Cafe Society, and don’t even bother hinting at it. Attempting to get around the rules of this forum isn’t much appreciated. As you’ve been told numerous times before, the discussion is not about the other posters; nor is it about what you think of the other posters. Keep those thoughts, and your workarounds, confined to the Pit.
So if we’re just taking guesses or expressing opinions as to what happened, why can’t those of us who feel it was just an unfortunate accident caused by insomnia and illness that caused poor judgement in regards to use of medications be allowed to feel that way without constantly hearing about his alleged drug abuse?
Brad Renfro’s drug abuse is a matter or record, Heath Ledger’s is not. It’s still just speculation. He’s dead now and nothing is going to change that so really what is the point to all this?
I must have missed where you were told you weren’t “allowed” to feel that it was an unfortunate accident. Just because I drew different conclusions from the information given doesn’t mean I know exactly what happened. None of us know the exact circumstances, but when these things happen, speculation occurs.
It’s certainly not a personal insult to you or any other poster if some of us think Ledger may have had a drug problem. Hell, it’s not even a personal insult to Ledger, seeing as how none of us knew the guy and no one is really saying anything terrible about him. IMO, “drug problem” does not equal “bad person.”
It seems like were not allowed because people are constantly presenting arguments that he must be a drug abuser. But even the medical examiner wouldn’t speculate on that. It’s just rather frustrating.
I think I’ll just stay out of these threads.
Sorry SkipMagic.
Please, I’m begging you…please list in a clear and concise manner how you came to this conclusion. Please confine your reasons to Heath Ledger, what you know and what you heard about HIM specifically. Your knowledge of what other people have done doesn’t apply. We’re talking about Heath Ledger, not people you’ve known.
Just as what’shername keeps going on about “blind” items from vague and suspect sources, you’re convinced based on…what? WHAT do you know SPECIFICALLY ABOUT HEATH LEDGER that makes you remain unconvinced even when piles of evidence indicate that he was NOT a “user” (your word) but had legitimate reasons for taking the medications he took?
As far as “doctor shopping” goes, you completely ignored my point that he was a) literally sick and tired, b) a traveling actor, and had just come from Chicago, then London, to New York, and c) the fact that certain drugs stay in the system and can interact even if you don’t take them together.
Sure, but why do you even think that Ledger had a “drug problem”? Where do you get that?
Why are you getting so intense about this? This is not a person that any of us knows. Celebrities get trashed on here in far worse ways than simple speculation about someone’s drug habits. Hell, posters on here have gotten trashed and accused about things on far less evidence than what we have here. I don’t understand how a celebrity gossip thread has turned into something that’s getting your blood pressure raised.
I base my speculation (not diagnosis, not factual conclusions) on the fact that the guy was taking oxycodone, hydrocodone, diazepam, temazepam, alprazolam and doxylamine, all of which are controlled substances, some of which do the same thing. As I said previously, I find it hard to believe that he was only using the drugs medicinally, considering their propensity for abuse. And also, as I said previously, I DON’T KNOW IF HE WAS A DRUG ADDICT OR NOT. I said he “may have had a drug problem,” not that he definitely had a drug problem. How much clearer can I be about that?
Ok, so basically, you got nothin’ other than the fact that he was a celebrity.
Got it.
I suppose I’m emotionally invested because I cared about him due to Brokeback Mountain, Ennis being one of my all-time favorite characters. If he’d had a history and it looked like suicide or true drug abuse, I’d say, damn, what a damned shame and accept it. But, there’s NO history of drug abuse, NO history of mental or emotional problems, not ONE SINGLE THING in his past or pre-death present to indicate he was heading down a road to ruin. No hint. No evidence. There was NO indication whatsoever that he was anything more than a sick guy, in pain, and very very tired and this was a tragic accident caused by faulty judgment, something that could happen to anybody.
Sorry about the CAPS but damn, the damage of all the baseless conjecture has been done, and can’t be undone. The least I and others can do is try to spread some truth and reasoning around any thread that mentions Ledger.
You asked me how I came to the conclusion and I listed that he was taking five different controlled substances and had a history of depression. It isn’t outlandish to think he may have been self-medicating. His celebrity has nothing to do with it. And I have repeatedly stated that I don’t know whether he was an addict or not. You are taking your anger out on the wrong person. In no way have I maligned Heath Ledger or anyone else in this thread. I’m sorry if that’s how you perceived it.
Cite for the “history of depression”?
By the way, regarding that bogus “coke” video, Entertainment Tonight and The Insider released a statement saying:
That’s bullshit of the highest order. They didn’t give a fuck about Heath Ledger’s family. They bought the video for $200,000 and ran numerous spots tooting their horns about the juicy details that would be revealed when it aired ON THE FIRST DAY OF SWEEPS.
What really happened, was this:
Everyone in Hollywood was quaking with rage and a boycott of those two shows was being threatened by stars. Those entertainment shows need stars as much as stars need them, and when you hear from the grapevine that all the biggies might just walk right past you on the red carpet, you’d better do some quick evaluating. I mean Jesus, when Billy Bush (from Access Hollywood) smacks you down, that’s saying something.
Now, Perez Hilton isn’t exactly the bastion of integrity, but this is the first cite I’ve found about the contents of the video. This isn’t the only place I read this, but it’s the first I can find with a cursory search.
Keep in mind that Ledger didn’t know anyone was taping, so it wasn’t as if he said that for the camera or posterity.
Here’s a little bit more from ABC.com, but I don’t have the direct link anymore.