# Bradley Manning verdict is in - 35 years for leaking info; will ask Obama for a pardon **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 22, 2013, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning-verdict-is-in-35-years-for-leaking-info-will-ask-obama-for-a-pardon/666855 "2013-08-22T04:25:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning-verdict-is-in-35-years-for-leaking-info-will-ask-obama-for-a-pardon/666855/81 "2013-08-22T19:48:05Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If he wants to play dress-up he can play dress-up when he’s a 60-year-old man with no savings and no pension and they let him free. And again boys and girls we see the ignorance exposed. Gender re-assignment is the equivalent of dressing-up? No, it isn’t. Your judgement is clouded by your hatred of the crime to the point of absurdity. I think we can safely say you have no objectivity in this matter. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning-verdict-is-in-35-years-for-leaking-info-will-ask-obama-for-a-pardon/666855/82 "2013-08-22T19:49:48Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > And again boys and girls we see the ignorance exposed. > Gender re-assignment is the equivalent of dressing-up? No, it isn’t. > Your judgement is clouded by your hatred of the crime to the point of absurdity. I think we can safely say you have no objectivity in this matter. Explain to me how it’s different, then. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning-verdict-is-in-35-years-for-leaking-info-will-ask-obama-for-a-pardon/666855/83 "2013-08-22T19:51:52Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Your judgement is clouded by your hatred of the crime to the point of absurdity. I don’t think that’s the only hatred in play, here. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning-verdict-is-in-35-years-for-leaking-info-will-ask-obama-for-a-pardon/666855/84 "2013-08-22T20:00:23Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Explain to me how it’s different, then. [Here you go.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_reassignment_surgery) ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning-verdict-is-in-35-years-for-leaking-info-will-ask-obama-for-a-pardon/666855/85 "2013-08-22T20:08:01Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Transexuality is a legitimate and serious medical condition, and I consider treating it to be a medical necessity. However, the process of changing one’s gender isn’t just a matter of a single procedure, but a whole host of different potential treatments, not all of which are applicable to (or desired by) every patient. Many of those treatments I would consider to be elective. Most of them I would consider deferable. I’m generally okay with surgery not being made available to Manning while she’s in prison, although I’d want any decision to withhold surgery to be made by a doctor, and not done as a matter of administrative policy. > > I do think hormones should be made available to her while she’s in prison, though. The earlier you start hormone treatment, the more effective it is. By refusing them, they’re making future medical treatment after Manning is released less effective, which I think goes beyond the scope of her punishment. Surgery, by and large, could be performed at any point after she gets out without a dramatic reduction in effectiveness. Accepting what you say, giving him the hormones sounds reasonable. As far as the surgery, if he should choose to have it, he can wait for that. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning-verdict-is-in-35-years-for-leaking-info-will-ask-obama-for-a-pardon/666855/86 "2013-08-22T20:08:09Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > [Here you go.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_reassignment_surgery) So it’s dressing up and getting plastic surgery. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning-verdict-is-in-35-years-for-leaking-info-will-ask-obama-for-a-pardon/666855/87 "2013-08-22T20:11:49Z")
Dude, if that was all he was doing, I’d agree with you. But if he is in fact in need of gender reassignment procedures, that’s a whole different ball of wax. Can you imagine the you that you are today being in a body of the opposite sex? That’s gotta be awful. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning-verdict-is-in-35-years-for-leaking-info-will-ask-obama-for-a-pardon/666855/88 "2013-08-22T20:12:56Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Dude, if that was all he was doing, I’d agree with you. But if he is in fact in need of gender reassignment procedures, that’s a whole different ball of wax. Can you imagine the you that you are today being in a body of the opposite sex? That’s gotta be awful. He’s in prison and with good cause. I don’t care how he feels, because he lost the right to do anything about it when he decided to commit treason. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning-verdict-is-in-35-years-for-leaking-info-will-ask-obama-for-a-pardon/666855/89 "2013-08-22T20:15:19Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So it’s dressing up and getting plastic surgery. So when you asked for the information, you had no intention of accepting it? Something to remember for the next time you ask for anything. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning-verdict-is-in-35-years-for-leaking-info-will-ask-obama-for-a-pardon/666855/90 "2013-08-22T20:16:38Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So when you asked for the information, you had no intention of accepting it? I asked for information and didn’t get anything that explained to me that it makes a difference. All I’m hearing is “You’re wrong because you’re wrong and if you don’t understand it’s because you’re a bigot.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning-verdict-is-in-35-years-for-leaking-info-will-ask-obama-for-a-pardon/666855/91 "2013-08-22T20:20:11Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I asked for information and didn’t get anything that explained to me that it makes a difference. All I’m hearing is “You’re wrong because you’re wrong and if you don’t understand it’s because you’re a bigot.” Have you seen a audiologist about your problem? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning-verdict-is-in-35-years-for-leaking-info-will-ask-obama-for-a-pardon/666855/92 "2013-08-22T20:20:14Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > He’s in prison and with good cause. I don’t care how he feels, because he lost the right to do anything about it when he decided to commit treason. I can’t stand the little twit, and the penalties couldn’t be too strong for my liking. If the judge erred the other way and ordered him to be executed, I’d have little problem with that. But the fact is that we give prisoners medical treatment. As I said, if Miller’s information is correct, I’m fine with giving him some hormones. Particularly if we can see him looking to do this before he turned into a thief and traitor. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning-verdict-is-in-35-years-for-leaking-info-will-ask-obama-for-a-pardon/666855/93 "2013-08-22T20:24:33Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Can you imagine the you that you are today being in a body of the opposite sex? That’s gotta be awful. A transsexual has no basis for comparison to claim this is true - he has never experienced life in the body of a woman. He can only say his life as a man sucks - but that might just be because his life sucks. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning-verdict-is-in-35-years-for-leaking-info-will-ask-obama-for-a-pardon/666855/94 "2013-08-22T20:30:37Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > A transsexual has no basis for comparison to claim this is true - he has never experienced life in the body of a woman. He can only say his life as a man sucks - but that might just be because his life sucks. Well, one could _after_ he’s completed the full gender reassignment procedure, right? I mean at that point he/she would have experienced life in both types of bodies. That siad, I do see and accept the point you were making. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning-verdict-is-in-35-years-for-leaking-info-will-ask-obama-for-a-pardon/666855/95 "2013-08-22T20:30:56Z")
It would be one thing if the gender reassignment was already halfway completed or something. Manning is 25 years old. He’s had plenty of time to decide do to this. Why is it only now that he’s in prison that he wants it? Definitely no plastic surgery for prisoners on our dollar. As to the hormones, what do they cost? If it’s much more than aspirin I say let him wait. Prisoners should be given treatment needed to keep them alive. Give them antibiotics for an infection, or surgery for appendicitis. Things that aren’t required to keep them alive like sleep apnea, lasik eye surgery or gender reassignment can wait until they get out of prison and pay for it themselves. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning-verdict-is-in-35-years-for-leaking-info-will-ask-obama-for-a-pardon/666855/96 "2013-08-22T20:31:18Z")
Given the track record of how well transsexuals do after gender reassignment surgery, I’d say the science is in need of just a BIT more evolution before we decide to hand them out at taxpayer expense to convicted felons. Also, then you’d have a woman in a man’s prison. Are you going to transfer that person to a womens’ facility? I think not. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning-verdict-is-in-35-years-for-leaking-info-will-ask-obama-for-a-pardon/666855/97 "2013-08-22T20:35:16Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > A transsexual has no basis for comparison to claim this is true - he has never experienced life in the body of a woman. He can only say his life as a man sucks - but that might just be because his life sucks. Generally not true. Most trans people report that simply being treated like the gender with which they identify relieves an enormous amount of the psychological strain of their condition, even if they aren’t yet receiving any medical treatment. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning-verdict-is-in-35-years-for-leaking-info-will-ask-obama-for-a-pardon/666855/98 "2013-08-22T20:38:40Z")
Is that generally how disassociative disorders are treated, by treating people as they think they are? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning-verdict-is-in-35-years-for-leaking-info-will-ask-obama-for-a-pardon/666855/99 "2013-08-22T20:42:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Is that generally how disassociative disorders are treated, by treating people as they think they are? And where did _that_ diagnosis come from? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning-verdict-is-in-35-years-for-leaking-info-will-ask-obama-for-a-pardon/666855/100 "2013-08-22T20:43:20Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Fair enough. You’re dodging my point, then. > > 😉 > [@](#): > > You miss my point. I’m asking you if keeping people who are a danger to society is the only reason we have prisons? > > Don’t we also imprison people to punish them for what they did wrong? Here’s the rest of that relevant part of my post, where I clearly stated I thought he was being punished, and I thought it was adequate punishment. So, no, I’m not dodging anything. > [@JM](#): > > Manning is being sentenced to 35 years, and may get off (or so I hear) in as little as 9. That’s in addition to time served, much of it in solitary confinement. So, no, I don’t think we’re letting him off. He is being punished, but I think serving 10 or 11 years total (I can’t recall how long he’s been in jail, but I know it’s more than a year) is adequate punishment. If you think that means I don’t believe people should be punished for crimes, then we don’t have anything further to discuss. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning-verdict-is-in-35-years-for-leaking-info-will-ask-obama-for-a-pardon/666855.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning-verdict-is-in-35-years-for-leaking-info-will-ask-obama-for-a-pardon/666855.md?page=6)