# Bradley Manning **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 22, 2013, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning/666873 "2013-08-22T14:45:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning/666873/161 "2013-08-28T03:17:59Z")
I have no problem with hormone therapy, and I’d help pay for counseling _gladly_. I am concerned that the guy is going to get his junk removed and then regret it later. And that would make me very sad, because 1. he will have failed himself 2. everybody around him will have failed him too and I don’t want to fail him, even if he’s failing himself at the moment. I already know one person who regrets their M-to-F surgery. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning/666873/162 "2013-08-28T05:20:09Z")
> [@Waenara](#): > > Several people in this thread seem like they were making the argument that they only objected to the taxpayers funding her transition surgery or hormone treatments (some were ok with paying for counselling, but not medical treatment). So if the “not with my tax money” argument is irrelevant, do these posters have any objection to her receiving hormone treatment and counselling in prison? Yes, because that’s still more than millions of law-abiding Americans get. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning/666873/163 "2013-08-28T05:33:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Yes, because that’s still more than millions of law-abiding Americans get. Law-abiding Americans don’t have a constitutional right to health care. Inmates do. ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning/666873/164 "2013-08-28T16:48:05Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Yes, because that’s still more than millions of law-abiding Americans get. millions of law-abiding Americans don’t have health insurance to pay for cancer treatment, or medications for chronic conditions. But it would be morally abhorrent to refuse treatment for prisoners to save money. Thems the breaks. If the state is taking custody of someone, then they are responsible for their physical wellbeing and providing medical care. And from a purely pragmatic point of view, paying probably less than $100 per month for hormone treatment is FAR cheaper than the long terms costs of not doing so (e.g. higher costs for counseling, antidepressants or other meds, more staffing and expense for suicide watches or solitary confinement, cost of treating suicide attempts, cost of dealing with lawsuits for withholding care). If Manning files a lawsuit to try to get hormone treatment, the state’s legal fees alone will dwarf the cost of just providing the treatment. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning/666873/165 "2013-08-28T19:26:45Z")
Re Cost Of Hormone Replacement Therapy In one of the other trans threads going on at the moment, **Una Persson** shared that without insurance helping to pay for them estradiol and (I can’t remember the name of the other drug) cost a little under $50 a month. ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning/666873/166 "2013-08-28T19:55:37Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Yes, because that’s still more than millions of law-abiding Americans get. Yes, if group A is suffering an injustice, we should ignore it as long as group B is suffering a greater injustice. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning/666873/167 "2013-08-28T19:59:41Z")
> [@Waenara](#): > > millions of law-abiding Americans don’t have health insurance to pay for cancer treatment, or medications for chronic conditions. But it would be morally abhorrent to refuse treatment for prisoners to save money. I don’t consider cancer treatment to be on the same level of someone wanting to look like their preferred gender. > [@](#): > > Thems the breaks. If the state is taking custody of someone, then they are responsible for their physical wellbeing and providing medical care. Which, to me, means they have an obligation to keep him from dying. Nothing more. > [@](#): > > And from a purely pragmatic point of view, paying probably less than $100 per month for hormone treatment is FAR cheaper than the long terms costs of not doing so (e.g. higher costs for counseling, antidepressants or other meds, more staffing and expense for suicide watches or solitary confinement, cost of treating suicide attempts, cost of dealing with lawsuits for withholding care). If Manning files a lawsuit to try to get hormone treatment, the state’s legal fees alone will dwarf the cost of just providing the treatment. I’d rather spend a thousand dollars on legal fees than spend one dollar to make Bradley Manning feel more comfortable in his own skin. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning/666873/168 "2013-08-28T19:59:53Z")
I don’t know much about much when it comes to these issues, but I’d hope doctors strongly encourage him to live as a woman without any hormones for awhile. He’s been through a terrific amount of psychological and emotional trauma and I wouldn’t want him jumping into something out of a desperate attempt to exert some sort of control over his life the military can’t take away from him. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning/666873/169 "2013-08-28T20:39:52Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’d rather spend a thousand dollars on legal fees than spend one dollar to make Bradley Manning feel more comfortable in his own skin. Yes, we know. It’s because you are, at a fundamental level, a horrible person. We do not require any further reminders of that fact, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning/666873/170 "2013-08-29T00:05:20Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I don’t know much about much when it comes to these issues, but I’d hope doctors strongly encourage him to live as a woman without any hormones for awhile. You don’t just declare yourself a trans person and immediately get hormone therapy and surgery. ANY patient would have a waiting period filled with extensive testing before being given hormones. > **[Standards of Care for the Health of Transgender and Gender Diverse People](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standards_of_Care_for_the_Health_of_Transsexual,_Transgender,_and_Gender_Nonconforming_People)** > > The Standards of Care for the Health of Transgender and Gender Diverse People (SOC) is an international clinical protocol by the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) outlining the recommended assessment and treatment for transgender and gender-diverse individuals across the lifespan including social, hormonal, or surgical transition. It often influences clinicians' decisions regarding patients' treatment. While other standards, protocols, and guidelines exist – especia [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bradley-manning/666873.md?page=8)