# Brainglutton, I am so tired of your BS **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 8, 2007, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainglutton-i-am-so-tired-of-your-bs/425669 "2007-11-08T17:12:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainglutton-i-am-so-tired-of-your-bs/425669/61 "2007-11-08T23:36:33Z")
[QUOTE=RedFury] Right. Because Aznar is a countryman of mine I shouldn’t think he was – and still is-- a complete asshole. :rolleyes: Get some glasses will ya. [/QUOTE] But that wasn’t point I was trying to make. To analogize for your Aznar example, are you telling me you wouldn’t have a problem with some fat, drunken, Appalachian redneck waddling into Juan Carlos I’s living room between 5/5/96 and 17/4/04 and belching out “Y’all Span-yards is a bunch of pussies, is all.” Because, that’s kind of the point I was trying to make. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainglutton-i-am-so-tired-of-your-bs/425669/62 "2007-11-08T23:45:53Z")
[QUOTE=RedFury] Bonus link. From one of America’s true heroes and intellectual genioses: [**Mark Twain and Imperialism**](http://www.historywiz.com/didyouknow-a.htm) [/QUOTE] [OFF-TOPIC]So… just how many people were speaking Espanol in Tenochtitlan in 1491?[/OFF-TOPIC] ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainglutton-i-am-so-tired-of-your-bs/425669/63 "2007-11-08T23:46:57Z")
[QUOTE=Fuji] But that wasn’t point I was trying to make. To analogize for your Aznar example, are you telling me you wouldn’t have a problem with some fat, drunken, Appalachian redneck waddling into Juan Carlos I’s living room between 5/5/96 and 17/4/04 and belching out “Y’all Span-yards is a bunch of pussies, is all.” Because, that’s kind of the point I was trying to make. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] False analogy. Chavez said nothing about _Americans_ as a whole. Besides the obvious fact that he wasn’t drunk and his waist size rather irrelevant to the conversation at hand. It’s much more like this: Had some other leader – say, Jacques Chirac – come to Spain and said similar comments about Aznar (who had, roughly, 90% of the population (left AND right) against his alliance with Bush vis-a-vis the Iraq invasion) I would have cheered him on. Point being, I don’t wear a flag around my eyes. 'cept when footie comes into the equation. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainglutton-i-am-so-tired-of-your-bs/425669/64 "2007-11-08T23:59:40Z")
[QUOTE=smiling bandit] I’m awful sick of leftists who loudly declare that America is a has-been, or that it’s weak, or that it can’t succeed - who then demand that America attempts the _actually_ impossible with a 100% success rate and that it must come off perfectly immediately, with no downsides at all. I consider myself something of a cynic, and even I’m tired of the leftist dogma of relative suckiness, whereby they’ve planted a strange lodestone in the culture, religion, and society of the west, and the closer anything is to it the more hideously evil/competant it is and the goofier/incompetent it is. [/quote] You seem to think you are Pitting **Der Trihs.** Sure, America has many collective crimes to its account, but what nation this side of Iceland doesn’t? My position is [and always has been](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=269293) simply that **America ain’t so special.** We no more have any grand historic mission in the world than Canada has. The difference is that we are a great power, doing as great powers do. Sometimes we are the Evil Empire, sometimes the Beacon of Hope, sometimes (more often, really) both at once. In **all** circumstances, however, it is more patriotic to focus attention on what America is doing wrong than on what America is doing right. We cannot amend our faults until we recognize them, which is always more difficult than self-congratulation; and since we **are** a great power, our faults are everybody’s business, i.e., their damage doesn’t stop at our shores and borders. (And if America really **is** special, shouldn’t it be more appropriate to hold it to higher standards than any other country?) Loyalty to one’s country should be like loyalty to one’s family. You’re not loyal to your family because it is the best in the world, but simply because it’s yours. However, loyalty to country, like loyalty to family, should be unconditional but never unlimited. If your brother is caught robbing a bank, you say, “You disappointed us, Bro, but hang in there, I’ll get you the best lawyer in town if I have to take out a second mortgage on my house.” You **don’t** say, “You did the right thing, you deserved that money, and those guards deserved to die.” “The Senator from Wisconsin cannot frighten me by exclaiming, ‘My country, right or wrong.’ In one sense I say so too. My country; and my country is the great American Republic. My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.” – [Senator Carl Schulz, 1872](http://www.bartleby.com/73/1641.html) I am a better American patriot than you will ever be, **smiling bandit.** ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainglutton-i-am-so-tired-of-your-bs/425669/65 "2007-11-09T00:02:12Z")
PS-As for the King, I don’t give a rat’s ass what they call him, as I believe Monarchies are about as archaic and insane a from of Government as they get. Fortunately, in Europe, they only matter as a from of pomp and tradition. OTOH, funnily enough, I actually think that as far as Kings go, JC is a pretty cool guy – he’s famous for his escapades and for mingling with the ‘common folk’. Copes with the royal BS in order to live…well, like a King. And his kid married a (gaaaasp!) pretty wild divorcée. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainglutton-i-am-so-tired-of-your-bs/425669/66 "2007-11-09T00:02:39Z")
[QUOTE=RedFury] False analogy. Chavez said nothing about _Americans_ as a whole. Besides the obvious fact that he wasn’t drunk and his waist size rather irrelevant to the conversation at hand. [/QUOTE] As long as you never criticize an American going to another country to tell them how they should live their lives, like “which leaders they should have?”. Fair’s fair, right? “Fat and drunken” was the red flag. > [@](#): > > Point being, I don’t wear a flag around my eyes. 'cept when footie comes into the equation. That’s because your country actually knows how to play soccer/football. Easy for you to say! ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainglutton-i-am-so-tired-of-your-bs/425669/67 "2007-11-09T00:04:35Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] You seem to think you are Pitting **Der Trihs.** Sure, America has many collective crimes to its account, but what nation this side of Iceland doesn’t? My position is [and always has been](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=269293) simply that **America ain’t so special.** We no more have any grand historic mission in the world than Canada has. The difference is that we are a great power, doing as great powers do. Sometimes we are the Evil Empire, sometimes the Beacon of Hope, sometimes (more often, really) both at once. In **all** circumstances, however, it is more patriotic to focus attention on what America is doing wrong than on what America is doing right. We cannot amend our faults until we recognize them, which is always more difficult than self-congratulation; and since we **are** a great power, our faults are everybody’s business, i.e., their damage doesn’t stop at our shores and borders. (And if America really **is** special, shouldn’t it be more appropriate to hold it to higher standards than any other country?) Loyalty to one’s country should be like loyalty to one’s family. You’re not loyal to your family because it is the best in the world, but simply because it’s yours. However, loyalty to country, like loyalty to family, should be unconditional but never unlimited. If your brother is caught robbing a bank, you say, “You disappointed us, Bro, but hang in there, I’ll get you the best lawyer in town if I have to take out a second mortgage on my house.” You **don’t** say, “You did the right thing, you deserved that money, and those guards deserved to die.” “The Senator from Wisconsin cannot frighten me by exclaiming, ‘My country, right or wrong.’ In one sense I say so too. My country; and my country is the great American Republic. My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.” – [Senator Carl Schulz, 1872](http://www.bartleby.com/73/1641.html) I am a better American patriot than you will ever be, **smiling bandit.** [/QUOTE] +1. Very well said. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainglutton-i-am-so-tired-of-your-bs/425669/68 "2007-11-09T00:18:01Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I am a better American patriot than you will ever be, **smiling bandit.** [/QUOTE] Awwww SNAP! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainglutton-i-am-so-tired-of-your-bs/425669/69 "2007-11-09T00:18:18Z")
[QUOTE=Fuji] As long as you never criticize an American going to another country to tell them how they should live their lives, like “which leaders they should have?”. Fair’s fair, right?.. [/quote] Only if you fall into (the dubious) 51% of voters who actually backed the dimwit. And I say “dubious” for many reasons, not the least of which is I refuse to believe that _most_ Americans really back such a murderous and greedy bunch. I spent too many wonderful years (decades actually) living Stateside – and have my own American offspring – to allow myself to think that way. At least in my experience. > [@](#): > > That’s because your country actually knows how to play soccer/football. Easy for you to say! Bah! We might, but all I’ve ever gotten out of my passion for our NT is heart-aches a plenty. OTOH, don’t despair. I think the US is slowly coming around to the true world sport and getting better and better. Hell, I wouldn’t be overly surprised if you won a WC before we do. ☹ Of course, I always have Real Madrid to rely on for my share of joy. Peace. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainglutton-i-am-so-tired-of-your-bs/425669/70 "2007-11-09T00:20:17Z")
Via an interview with Noam Chomsky: > [@](#): > > Question: Why do you hate America? > > Answer: I realize that the question is not intended seriously. However, there is a serious point lurking behind it. A crucial totalitarian principle is that the state is identified with the people, the culture, the society. For those who adopt that principle, criticism of the state is hatred of the country. In the old Soviet Union, for example, dissidents were condemned as “anti-Soviet” or “haters of Russia,” because they condemned policies of the Holy State. We, however, rightly regarded them as the people most dedicated to the welfare of the Russian people. The concept has biblical origins. King Ahab, the epitome of evil in the Bible, condemned the Prophet Elijah as a hater of Israel because he denounced the crimes of the evil king, who, like all totalitarians, identified state power—himself—with the society and people. Where there is a democratic culture, such a notion would be ridiculed. In Italy, for example, if someone were to publish a book called “the Anti-Italians,” denouncing people who dare to criticize government policy, people would collapse with ridicule. It is rather striking that in the US, such a book (of course full of outlandish lies) is reviewed seriously and treated with respect. The US is alone, to my knowledge, outside of totalitarian states, in that concepts like “hate America” or “anti-American” are adopted in the style of King Ahab and his totalitarian successors. That should trouble us. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainglutton-i-am-so-tired-of-your-bs/425669/71 "2007-11-09T00:28:10Z")
Well, the OP has more letters than “Saddamite” and more words than “Why do you hate America?” I suppose, then, that we should regard it as an improvement. Somehow it is hard to do so. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I am a better American patriot than you will ever be, smiling bandit. How I wish we could make the dullard and his ilk understand what you mean by this. America would be so much better for it. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainglutton-i-am-so-tired-of-your-bs/425669/72 "2007-11-09T00:28:41Z")
@ **RedFury** I’m a n00b, but one of the first exchanges I had on this board was with you regarding the name of the town where I grew up, which was named after an early practitioner of biological warfare, who brought smallpox blankets to the natives during the Seven Year’s War. I have no illusions about the purity of my national legacy. That said, I would _still_ find it really irritating to have a foreigner come to my country and harangue me about this sordid part of my nation’s history. > [@](#): > > Of course, I always have Real Madrid to rely on for my share of joy. No Zidane for you! Ha! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainglutton-i-am-so-tired-of-your-bs/425669/73 "2007-11-09T00:35:14Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I am a better American patriot than you will ever be, **smiling bandit.** [/QUOTE] BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! _gasp_ No…wait… BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Jesus Christ you’re a fucking douchbag. You? A patriot? YOU??? You’re the biggest fucking traitor on these boards. You mistake criticism for content, and slavishly lust after a political philosophy of legalized theft that is an anathema to those individuals who sweated and fought and died to make this country great. The ONLY reason you and your kind haven’t been stood up against a wall like you so richly deserve is that the people who founded this country-those rich old white men that you so despise- made sure to codify your right to be an idiot and a traitor into law. And you have the gall, the unmitigated gall, to imagine yourself a patriot??? Jesus wept! Your delusion knows no bounds, you have no fucking shame at all. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainglutton-i-am-so-tired-of-your-bs/425669/74 "2007-11-09T00:44:40Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] the people who founded this country-those rich old white men that you so despise- . . . [/QUOTE] To the contrary, I mostly admire them, even the slaveholders. They weren’t right about everything, but they were fine men of their time. And I’m also a better patriot than **you, Weirddave.** (And a better Democrat, but let’s not be having **that** one out again.) ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainglutton-i-am-so-tired-of-your-bs/425669/75 "2007-11-09T00:47:07Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] And I’m also a better patriot than **you, Weirddave.** [/QUOTE] You’re certainly a better egoist, if nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainglutton-i-am-so-tired-of-your-bs/425669/76 "2007-11-09T00:47:24Z")
So, **Weirddave** , exactly which types of dissent count as treason? Or do you not know what the word traitor means? I just want to get this straight so we know where you stand. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainglutton-i-am-so-tired-of-your-bs/425669/77 "2007-11-09T00:47:31Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] You’re the biggest fucking traitor on these boards. [/QUOTE] That you equate the public discussion of political positions with which you disagree with _treason_ shows you’re a pretty lousy patriot yourself, **Weirddave**. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainglutton-i-am-so-tired-of-your-bs/425669/78 "2007-11-09T00:49:21Z")
[Eugene Debs,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Debs) BTW, was at least as good an American patriot as Teddy Roosevelt or Woodrow Wilson, as was [Norman Thomas](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Thomas), and I’m proud to belong to their tradition even if I don’t agree with their ideology in all respects. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainglutton-i-am-so-tired-of-your-bs/425669/79 "2007-11-09T00:49:37Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] Jesus Christ you’re a fucking douchbag. You? A patriot? YOU??? You’re the biggest fucking traitor on these boards. You mistake criticism for content, and slavishly lust after a political philosophy of legalized theft that is an anathema to those individuals who sweated and fought and died to make this country great. [/quote] Those people who “sweated and fought and died” think you’re a fucktard. You’re exactly what’s wrong with this country. You have to hold the government accountable for it’s flaws, but you refuse to see any. > [@](#): > > The ONLY reason you and your kind haven’t been stood up against a wall like you so richly deserve is that the people who founded this country-those rich old white men that you so despise- made sure to codify your right to be an idiot and a traitor into law. And you have the gall, the unmitigated gall, to imagine yourself a patriot??? Jesus wept! Your delusion knows no bounds, you have no fucking shame at all. You’re a piss poor American. I notice that people with empty heads have the loudest voices, I wonder if they’re used as some kind of resonating chamber… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainglutton-i-am-so-tired-of-your-bs/425669/80 "2007-11-09T00:52:42Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] You’re certainly a better egoist, if nothing else. [/QUOTE] I think you mean “egotist,” and I will admit to vanity without hesitation or shame, but the vain are not always wrong. (“Egoist” means [something different](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethical_egoism).) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainglutton-i-am-so-tired-of-your-bs/425669.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainglutton-i-am-so-tired-of-your-bs/425669.md?page=5)