# Brainwashing: is it ever therapeutic? Beneficial? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 22, 2011, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainwashing-is-it-ever-therapeutic-beneficial/597236 "2011-09-22T19:10:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainwashing-is-it-ever-therapeutic-beneficial/597236/1 "2011-09-22T19:10:02Z")
Say I’ve decided that I’m an incurably dysfunctional personality - that what I call “me” is just a mess of maladaptive traits and that I need an entirely new identity to save what is left of my life. Is there any therapeutic practitioner or institution who can be trusted to brainwash me? What would be involved? How long would it take? If I am in my 40s (as I am), would I be working the rest of my life to pay off the costs? Most importantly, could such a person ever learn to be a responsible and well-adjusted adult, dependent on no one but himself? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainwashing-is-it-ever-therapeutic-beneficial/597236/2 "2011-09-22T19:35:27Z")
Isn’t that what therapy is? ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainwashing-is-it-ever-therapeutic-beneficial/597236/3 "2011-09-22T19:37:12Z")
Therapy is too benevolent, too tolerant. I’m talking about totally reprogramming an individual so s/he has some chance to fit into society and lead a meaningful and productive existence. What I’m _not_ talking about is reforming serious deviants like sociopaths, psychopaths, or the criminally insane. I’m talking about people who seem to live only for themselves, and often don’t even do that very well - people who are immature, underachieving, incapable of doing anything hard enough long enough to be functional adults. ---
**Author:** ![Grendel\_s\_Father](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grendel\_s\_Father](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grendel_s_Father)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainwashing-is-it-ever-therapeutic-beneficial/597236/4 "2011-09-23T15:15:41Z")
Depending on what exactly you mean by brainwashing, here’s a relevant article: [mind control - brainwashing - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com](http://www.skepdic.com/mindcont.html) > [@](#): > > Finally, it is widely believed that the Chinese were successful in brainwashing American prisoners of war during the Korean War. The evidence that their tactics of torture, isolation, sensory deprivation, etc., were successfully used to control the minds of their captives is non-existent. Very few (22 of 4,500 or 0.5%) of those captured by the Chinese went over to the other side (Sutherland 1979, 114). The myth of success by the Chinese is primarily due to the work of Edward Hunter, whose Brainwashing in Red China: the Calculated Destruction of Men’s Minds (New York: Vanguard Press, 1951) is still referred to by those who see mind control tactics as a major menace today. The CIA provided most of Hunter’s fodder in their effort to inspire hatred of the North Koreans and communism, to explain why some American soldiers didn’t hate the enemy, and “to aggrandize their own role by arguing that they themselves must investigate brainwashing techniques in order to keep up with the enemy” (Sutherland 1979, 114). > > It seems then, that if we define mind control as the successful control of the thoughts and actions of another without his or her consent, **mind control exists only in fantasy**. Unfortunately, that does not mean that it will always be thus. (Bolding mine). It seems that brainwashing of the type you’re talking about might not actually exist. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2011, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainwashing-is-it-ever-therapeutic-beneficial/597236/5 "2011-09-24T02:40:15Z")
The book ‘combatting cult mind control’ talks about brainwashing in cults, and how (among other things) there is a 3 stage process. You break down/destroy the old identity, create a new identity, then solidify the new identity. So it is a matter of destabalizing a person’s ties to their old identity (their friends, career, hobbies, town, beliefs, etc) before inserting the new one. Then you get reinforcement for the new identity (new town, friends, career, hobbies, beliefs, etc) Arguably what the military does in bootcamp is a form of brainwashing in that regards. You destroy and destabalize the old identity and build up a new one. I have no idea if there are any groups that do constructive brainwashing. Or what that would even entail. Some programs that promote recovery from drug addiction seem to have some traits of cult brainwashing, but I don’t have any cites on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainwashing-is-it-ever-therapeutic-beneficial/597236/6 "2011-09-24T18:14:48Z")
I will try to avoid IMHO territory, although it is largely a matter of opinion. First, if Patty Hearst wasn’t brainwashed, then how do you explain her actions. Second example is cults in the 60s and 70s. They would take a young man or woman, usually in the 15-25 age range) who was lonesome and inculcate them in their cult. If Dianetics isn’t a form of brainwashing, I don’t know how else to describe it. Then were debrainwashers who undid, often successfully the cultish memes. (Then there is organized religion, but I better quit now.) As for positive brainwashing or whatever you want to call it, yes I think that’s what therapy does, especially cognitive conditioning. You take a person with bad habits of thoughts and teach them better habits. It is said to work, at least sometimes. Isn’t that pretty much what AA and similar 12 step organizations do? My sister used to be addicted to cocaine and now she isn’t. It took two months in a dryout facility. The first time it worked but she slipped. The second time (around 25 years ago) it was permanent. That is also a form of positive brainwashing (at least from my point of view). ---
**Author:** ![JKilez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@JKilez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKilez)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainwashing-is-it-ever-therapeutic-beneficial/597236/7 "2011-09-26T12:13:40Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Arguably what the military does in bootcamp is a form of brainwashing in that regards. You destroy and destabalize the old identity and build up a new one. I was going to suggest this. Not only will that organization break you down and reprogram you to be disciplined, respectful, achiever; but, they also pay you while they are doing it! It is win-win! ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainwashing-is-it-ever-therapeutic-beneficial/597236/8 "2011-09-26T14:17:52Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > First, if Patty Hearst wasn’t brainwashed, then how do you explain her actions. Stockholm syndrome. And that is very unlike what cults do, which is a much more subtle manipulation. Cults remove your previous identity by using your own dissatisfaction with that identity, while slowly making your more dissatisfied with what’s left. They fix your unhappiness by giving you purpose, and then when that wears off, they trick you into thinking that’s because you haven’t completely given in. It’s essentially how addiction works, with increased use of the substance being replaced by increased devotion to the cult. None of this is classical brainwashing, which would involve using known behaviorist techniques. Basically, you punish what you don’t want and reward what you do, with the idea that, eventually, you will actually change your victim’s thinking to fit. Rewards can even include drugs and other things that directly alter the mind. (There’s also the fictional version of brainwashing that involves directly altering the brain or at least the information stored within. Or just using magic.) ---
**Author:** ![thatguyjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6de8d8/32.png) [@thatguyjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thatguyjeff)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainwashing-is-it-ever-therapeutic-beneficial/597236/9 "2011-09-26T16:36:51Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > I’m talking about people who seem to live only for themselves, and often don’t even do that very well - people who are immature, underachieving, incapable of doing anything hard enough long enough to be functional adults. This description seems to fit alcoholics/drug addicts. Rehab = beneficial brainwashing? ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brainwashing-is-it-ever-therapeutic-beneficial/597236/10 "2011-09-28T08:59:55Z")
What kind of problems are you talking about? I might be able to make some suggestions if you give us more details.