# Brake job on car: was my wife ripped off? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 12, 2009, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brake-job-on-car-was-my-wife-ripped-off/496124 "2009-05-12T01:52:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mongo\_Ponton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Mongo\_Ponton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mongo_Ponton)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brake-job-on-car-was-my-wife-ripped-off/496124/21 "2009-05-13T02:06:01Z")
Oh for crying out loud! Rotors can be turned. I buy Brembo and have them turned before they’re ever installed and once more before trashing them. I have had them hot turned and then cryrogenically frozen for my A6. I have them turned for exactly the reason that I can get much better precision than comes from the factory and I’m not talking BoBo brand from China. As to the OP your wife got ripped off. In the future she needs to separate herself from the situation. She can tell them if it’s not safe she’ll have to walk home and her incredibly pissed off husband will be in to deal with it or reschedule. They will in all likelyhood send her home with an oil change. This isn’t just directed at women. It also applies to men. Just remove yourself from the scene any way you can and give yourself some time to think and gather evidence as to what needs to be done and how much it should cost. I hate when people get ripped off. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brake-job-on-car-was-my-wife-ripped-off/496124/22 "2009-05-13T02:08:11Z")
If they’re “not machined precisely enough” to put on your car, why on earth would you buy Brembo discs in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brake-job-on-car-was-my-wife-ripped-off/496124/23 "2009-05-13T02:26:19Z")
Update: Yesterday morning I sent the following email to Tire Kingdom’s president and VP. (It took a while, but I finally figured out what their email addresses were.) When I got home from work today there were two messages on the answering machine – one from their corporate headquarters and one from the local store. I’ll call them both tomorrow. I am also taking the rotors to a buddy of mine who’s an instructor at a Sinclair College’s Automotive Technology Department. > [@](#): > > [President of Tire Kingdom]: > > Here’s the full story: > > My wife took her 2002 Saturn to the Springfield, Ohio NTB/Tire Kingdom for a routine oil change. The car has 75,000 miles on it. After they changed the oil they told her, “One of the rear brakes is broken. It’s not safe to drive and needs to be changed. We can fix your brakes for $325.” She agreed. > > The charge on her credit card ended up being $480. The service included two rear rotors, new rear pads, oil change, labor, shop fees, etc. > > I was pretty upset when she told me this. I drove the car over a hundred miles the day before, and the brakes seemed perfectly fine to me; there was no grinding, squealing or pulsations. My initial reaction was that she got ripped off. So she drove back there and asked for the parts, which they gave to her. > > I have them here in front of me: > > - > > ``` > There's a little bit of rust on the rotors' faces where the pads do not make contact. The surfaces where the pads hit the rotor look and feel fairly smooth, with no scoring. On the hub it says, "Minimum thickness of 8.0 mm." I measured around 9.5 mm with my 0-1" Mitutoyo micrometer. I'm not an expert, but visually they seem fine to me. > > ``` > > - > > ``` > Thickness of friction material on each of the four pads: 3 mm, 4 mm, 6 mm, and 6 mm. One of the 6 mm pads was broken; the friction material had separated from the steel backing plate. > > ``` > > Again, I’m not an expert. But in my opinion the rotors did not need to be replaced. I’m not sure about the pads. Certainly if one was broken it should have been replaced. > > I am now in the process of meeting with two, independent, ASE-certified mechanics to evaluate the parts, one of whom is an instructor at Sinclair College’s Automotive Technology Department. If they determine the rotors needed to be replaced, I will apologize and you’ll never hear from me again. If they determine the rotors did not need to be replaced, and/or they believe my wife was significantly overcharged, I will demand two things: 1) a refund for the parts and associated labor for the items that did not need replaced, 2) retraining of your management & technicians at the Springfield, Ohio NTB/Tire Kingdom. If the old rotors are deemed safe for use, you can have the new rotors back if you so desire; I will simply install the old ones. > > If it’s deemed by the ASE-certified mechanics that the rotors (and perhaps some of the pads) did not need to be replaced, and you fail to give my wife a full refund for these parts, I will: > > - > > ``` > Contact the Ohio Attorney General > > ``` > > - > > ``` > Contact the entire management team at your parent company (TBC), and let them know how I was extremely dissatisfied with you > > ``` > > - > > ``` > Contact management at Sumitomo (TBC's parent company) > > ``` > > - > > ``` > Contact the GMs at WHIO and WDTN > > ``` > > If that doesn’t work I’ll pursue other options. > > [Crafter\_Man] > My address and phone number The reason I’m doing this, BTW, is not for the money. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brake-job-on-car-was-my-wife-ripped-off/496124/24 "2009-05-13T02:45:39Z")
\ What’s the definition of the word “turn” when speaking of “turning a rotor”? To change the position, or is it something like to sand it?\ ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brake-job-on-car-was-my-wife-ripped-off/496124/25 "2009-05-13T02:47:19Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > \ What’s the definition of the word “turn” when speaking of “turning a rotor”? To change the position, or is it something like to sand it?\ To ‘turn’ it on a lathe; mill. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brake-job-on-car-was-my-wife-ripped-off/496124/26 "2009-05-13T02:50:30Z")
FYI, Crafter, Tire Kingdom is a d/b/a of TBC, not a subsidiary, so it’s not a parent company, strictly speaking. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brake-job-on-car-was-my-wife-ripped-off/496124/27 "2009-05-13T03:01:31Z")
> [@Mongo\_Ponton](#): > > Oh for crying out loud! > > Rotors can be turned. > > I buy Brembo and have them turned before they’re ever installed and once more before trashing them. > > I have had them hot turned and then cryrogenically frozen for my A6. > > I have them turned for exactly the reason that I can get much better precision than comes from the factory and I’m not talking BoBo brand from China. > As to the OP your wife got ripped off. In the future she needs to separate herself from the situation. She can tell them if it’s not safe she’ll have to walk home and her incredibly pissed off husband will be in to deal with it or reschedule. They will in all likelyhood send her home with an oil change. > > This isn’t just directed at women. It also applies to men. Just remove yourself from the scene any way you can and give yourself some time to think and gather evidence as to what needs to be done and how much it should cost. > > I hate when people get ripped off. :rolleyes::dubious: A car maker will repair or replace items under warranty based on what is cheaper and is consistent with a quality repair. So when companies like Mercedes, BMW and Volvo don’t turn rotors under warranty but rather go to the extra expense of replacing rotors there has to be a reason. I gave that reason above. I was actually part of a task force that looked into possibly turning rotors using on car brake lathes. Guess what? We found after an in the field trial that turning rotors was inferior to replace when it came to vibration and longevity. The factory limit for runout is measured in thousandths of a millimeter. Way tighter tolerance than commercial brake lathe I am aware of. Seriously dude, if you are having to turn rotors before installation, you have a supplier that is not storing them properly. Find a new supplier. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brake-job-on-car-was-my-wife-ripped-off/496124/28 "2009-05-13T03:04:39Z")
CM if it is any help, you add my ASE master automotive technician status, a former instructor for a car maker and the fact that I am a service manager for a large auto dealership to the pile on with them. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brake-job-on-car-was-my-wife-ripped-off/496124/29 "2009-05-13T03:10:34Z")
Whenever my wife does car repair stuff she _nearly always_ gets jammed with crap like this. She can take a car in for an oil change and come out $200 poorer… “well, the guy said my serpentine belt was frazoozled, and that my discombobulator was loose.” Don’t know about the OP’s experience, but in my experience, many car repair guys simply _prey_ on females. The time when she called me up saying “But the car guy said he wouldn’t feel safe picking up _his_ kid with the car” was pretty much the last straw. A strongly worded letter from my lawyer pretty much fixed that situation… and me taking the car(s) in for repairs put a stop to future problems of this sort. Usual disclaimer: not all car guys are like this, blah blah blah. But enough _are_. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brake-job-on-car-was-my-wife-ripped-off/496124/30 "2009-05-13T03:45:20Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Whenever my wife does car repair stuff she _nearly always_ gets jammed with crap like this. She can take a car in for an oil change and come out $200 poorer… “well, the guy said my serpentine belt was frazoozled, and that my discombobulator was loose.” > > Don’t know about the OP’s experience, but in my experience, many car repair guys simply _prey_ on females. The time when she called me up saying “But the car guy said he wouldn’t feel safe picking up _his_ kid with the car” was pretty much the last straw. A strongly worded letter from my lawyer pretty much fixed that situation… and me taking the car(s) in for repairs put a stop to future problems of this sort. > > Usual disclaimer: not all car guys are like this, blah blah blah. But enough _are_. **John** your wife’s and **Crafter\_Man** ’s wife’s experience shows why it is important to have a regular quality shop that you take your car to. I agree with you that there are predatory shops out there. It’s not just women either. I have seen shops try to take advantage of any warm blooded two legged animal that comes in the door\*. There are too many of these shops unfortunately. But there are lots of quality honest shops also. I can guarantee you that if any of my people tried to act in a predatory manner toward one of my customers that would be their very last day in my employ. I can also guarantee that **Gary T** has never hosed a customer either. Gary T wrote a wonderful thread several years ago about how to find a quality shop. Maybe if we ask nice he will link to it. My suggestion as someone who has spent more than 1/2 his life dinking with cars for a living, the single best thing you can do for your wallet and well being as a car owner is to find a quality shop and patronize them. Patronize them for every single thing your car needs. Maybe their oil change might cost $10 more than the Iffy Lube down the street, but they won’t damage your car, or forget to put oil back in the engine, or try to sell you shit you don’t need. Every time someone goes to a scumbag shop it helps to keep them in business. If everyone stopped going to these assholes they would go out of business. \*Hell I had a used car lot and a shop that was out of town try to take advantage of me today. Scumbags. Didn’t work BTW. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brake-job-on-car-was-my-wife-ripped-off/496124/31 "2009-05-14T03:06:40Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > To ‘turn’ it on a lathe; mill. That makes so much more sense, but until reading this thread I never even thought of a lathe. All I could think of was “Well, maybe they’re stationary, and you’re rotating it so that it’s not always wearing in the same spot.” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brake-job-on-car-was-my-wife-ripped-off/496124/32 "2009-05-14T03:23:29Z")
Heh. Nah- they turn… that’s how the caliper/pad slows the car, by gripping the disc. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brake-job-on-car-was-my-wife-ripped-off/496124/33 "2009-05-14T13:38:52Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Gary T wrote a wonderful thread several years ago about how to find a quality shop. Maybe if we ask nice he will link to it. I believe you’re referring to [post #3 in this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=162956). ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brake-job-on-car-was-my-wife-ripped-off/496124/34 "2009-05-14T13:57:14Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > If it’s deemed…that… **some** of the pads did not need to be replaced… (Bolding mine) Pads are almost\* always replaced in sets because A: they cannot be purchased individually - they’re only sold in sets (e.g. all four for the front brakes) and B: replacing only some of them could result in imbalanced braking (i.e. a pull from one side gripping better than the other). I would hope that in their response they will explain this, as it is legitimate justification to replace all four pads even if only one is faulty. \*The exception being replacing one brake caliper with a “loaded” caliper, i.e. a caliper that comes with two new pads. While this gets around point A, it does not address point B. It’s usually wise to replace calipers in pairs to maintain proper brake balance, but there are a few situations where it might not be necessary. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brake-job-on-car-was-my-wife-ripped-off/496124.md?page=1)