# Braking to teach a tailgater a "lesson" ends in two deaths. I pit everyone involved. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 12, 2007, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/braking-to-teach-a-tailgater-a-lesson-ends-in-two-deaths-i-pit-everyone-involved/399813 "2007-04-12T16:02:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/braking-to-teach-a-tailgater-a-lesson-ends-in-two-deaths-i-pit-everyone-involved/399813/21 "2007-04-12T19:34:07Z")
[QUOTE=zweisamkeit] That’s exactly what I was going to say. Criminy. A Sebring being expensive. :: snort :: [/QUOTE] Sebring Convertible Touring has a MSRP\* starting at: $29,540 Some people would consider that expensive. No sense in making fun of it. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/braking-to-teach-a-tailgater-a-lesson-ends-in-two-deaths-i-pit-everyone-involved/399813/22 "2007-04-12T19:35:45Z")
Well, the “lesson” was taught. I bet Christian doesn’t tailgate anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/braking-to-teach-a-tailgater-a-lesson-ends-in-two-deaths-i-pit-everyone-involved/399813/23 "2007-04-12T19:43:36Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] Sebring Convertible Touring has a MSRP\* starting at: $29,540 Some people would consider that expensive. No sense in making fun of it. [/QUOTE] Yeah, if it was a brand new one. I bet the Chevy pickup the other guy was driving cost just as much when it was new. And here’s a quote I can’t believe has been left un-posted: > [@](#): > > Charles Bender said his family is trying to understand why God would allow them to die. > > “I don’t understand it,” he said. “They were so happy that He thought it was the right time to take her.” ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/braking-to-teach-a-tailgater-a-lesson-ends-in-two-deaths-i-pit-everyone-involved/399813/24 "2007-04-12T19:51:31Z")
Putting a positive, but twisted spin here, it seems to me the dead driver is a potential Darwin Award nominee. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/braking-to-teach-a-tailgater-a-lesson-ends-in-two-deaths-i-pit-everyone-involved/399813/25 "2007-04-12T19:53:43Z")
[QUOTE=Duke of Rat] Yeah, if it was a brand new one. I bet the Chevy pickup the other guy was driving cost just as much when it was new. And here’s a quote I can’t believe has been left un-posted: [/QUOTE] Well I feel very sorry for Mr. Bender and I guess it is better than being really angry at the two idiot drivers, but I would be really angry at the two idiot drivers. Jim ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/braking-to-teach-a-tailgater-a-lesson-ends-in-two-deaths-i-pit-everyone-involved/399813/26 "2007-04-12T19:59:17Z")
[QUOTE=Duke of Rat] You left out “expensive” convertible. Apparently the value of your car is inversely proportional to the value of your life, according to **NinjaChick**. And since when is a Chrysler Sebring expensive? [/QUOTE] No, the price of your car does not dictate the worth of your life. However, in my experience people driving cars that are “flashy” (ie convertibles of any flavor) tend to be more aggressive, less considerate drivers. I can’t say whether or not this frequently carries over into other aspects of life. And yes, I consider a car that starts at nearly $30,000 expensive. ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/braking-to-teach-a-tailgater-a-lesson-ends-in-two-deaths-i-pit-everyone-involved/399813/27 "2007-04-12T20:05:40Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] I agree with everything you said except two key points: Who expressed sympathy for the idiot driver of the Sebring Convertible that tailgated and failed to wear a seatbelt and thusly got his girlfriend killed? If he lived and she died, he should have been found guilty of killing her. All that said, there is never a good excuse to tap your brakes just to teach a lesson. The tailgaters were wrong, but the pickup truck driver is also an idiot and helped cause the two deaths. He had no real reason to do so except anger. Jim [/QUOTE] I think I was guilty of doing this once. :o I was coming back from school and it was a blizzard. This is no exaggeration when I say I passed 20 accidents. The road was a sheet of ice and visibility was almost zero. I was on 295 creeping along going really slow and there was a girl behind me on my ass! It was really scaring me because I was sliding as it was. I was so afraid the car in front of me was going to slide and that she’d hit me. Honestly she was about 2 feet from my car and I did tap my break to try to get her to back the hell off. It didn’t do any good but knew she’d hit me if I had to stop. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/braking-to-teach-a-tailgater-a-lesson-ends-in-two-deaths-i-pit-everyone-involved/399813/28 "2007-04-12T20:12:18Z")
[QUOTE=Bobotheoptimist] Stay off my fucking ass and you won’t die seems like good advice, but this was a road rage thing and not a “tapping on your brakes to teach a tailgater a lesson” thing, IMHO [/QUOTE] Whoa there, Bruce, “tapping on your brakes to teach a tailgater a lesson” _is_ Road Rage. The punishment for following too close 2 points on the license and a fine. Not death. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/braking-to-teach-a-tailgater-a-lesson-ends-in-two-deaths-i-pit-everyone-involved/399813/29 "2007-04-12T20:22:29Z")
[QUOTE=saoirse] Whoa there, Bruce, “tapping on your brakes to teach a tailgater a lesson” _is_ Road Rage. The punishment for following too close 2 points on the license and a fine. Not death. [/QUOTE] I think the point here is that there is absolutely _no_ indication that tailgating was a factor at all. > [@](#): > > Investigators are not certain how fast the vehicles were traveling, what started the dispute or how long it had been going on The pick-up driver accelerated, cut in front, and slammed on the brakes, after they had been getting into it for quite some distance. Who knows who started it, and what touched it off? Nobody. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/braking-to-teach-a-tailgater-a-lesson-ends-in-two-deaths-i-pit-everyone-involved/399813/30 "2007-04-12T20:45:12Z")
Wow. Two groups of car owners that regularly drive badly around the people I commute to and from work with (and yes I drive the speed limit these days): Sports cars & pick-up trucks. They road raged each other? I’m Shocked…! _your winnings, monsieur…_ If only they could have taken out a few Beemers, Lexi, & Benzes before they died… ---
**Author:** ![guppy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7feea3/32.png) [@guppy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guppy)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/braking-to-teach-a-tailgater-a-lesson-ends-in-two-deaths-i-pit-everyone-involved/399813/31 "2007-04-12T21:04:48Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Mudd] I think the point here is that there is absolutely _no_ indication that tailgating was a factor at all.The pick-up driver accelerated, cut in front, and slammed on the brakes, after they had been getting into it for quite some distance. Who knows who started it, and what touched it off? Nobody. [/QUOTE] From the article: [QUOTE=] …on his brakes when the Chrysler Sebring convertible was on the truck’s tail… [/QUOTE] Not that I have stake in this but according to the article he was on the trucks tail and the article says nothing about the truck swerving into this position. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/braking-to-teach-a-tailgater-a-lesson-ends-in-two-deaths-i-pit-everyone-involved/399813/32 "2007-04-12T21:30:01Z")
[QUOTE=NinjaChick] And yes, I consider a car that starts at nearly $30,000 expensive. [/QUOTE] [This](http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/news/display.htm?StoryID=58874) news report labels it as a 1998 Sebring, which according to [Cars.com](http://Cars.com) in my area sells for about $5,000 to $9,000. Do “yuppies” really drive around in nine year old cars that cost seven grand? ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/braking-to-teach-a-tailgater-a-lesson-ends-in-two-deaths-i-pit-everyone-involved/399813/33 "2007-04-12T21:37:07Z")
[QUOTE=Ravenman] [This](http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/news/display.htm?StoryID=58874) news report labels it as a 1998 Sebring, which according to [Cars.com](http://Cars.com) in my area sells for about $5,000 to $9,000. Do “yuppies” really drive around in nine year old cars that cost seven grand? [/QUOTE] We don’t care! They were in a convertible, dammit! In the news article linked from the OP, he was in construction and she worked in a furniture store. The car was borrowed from one of them’s mother (her mother) since his car was having trouble. Some damn poor excuses for yuppies if you ask me. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/braking-to-teach-a-tailgater-a-lesson-ends-in-two-deaths-i-pit-everyone-involved/399813/34 "2007-04-12T21:41:14Z")
[QUOTE=Duke of Rat] We don’t care! They were in a convertible, dammit! In the news article linked from the OP, he was a construction worker and she worked retail. The car was borrowed from one of them’s mother. Some damn poor excuses for yuppies if you ask me. [/QUOTE] But don’t let the facts get in the way of posters like **VCO3** ’s irrational vitriol on matters such as these. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/braking-to-teach-a-tailgater-a-lesson-ends-in-two-deaths-i-pit-everyone-involved/399813/35 "2007-04-12T21:50:23Z")
If someone _must_ die in a road rage thing, I’m always pleased when the fatalities are limited to the ragers and not the poor schlub in the 82 Corolla one lane over who’s just minding his own business. Too often Rager1 does the cut & slam and Rager2 reacts by knocking schlubbo off the road in an effort to keep his airbags from deploying. Schlubbo then gets greased by a tree or oncoming traffic and the big-man Ragers haul ass to their respective trailer parks. Heh…killed _almost_ instantly. So they squirmed a little at the end, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/braking-to-teach-a-tailgater-a-lesson-ends-in-two-deaths-i-pit-everyone-involved/399813/36 "2007-04-12T21:51:55Z")
[QUOTE=guppy] Not that I have stake in this but according to the article he was on the trucks tail and the article says nothing about the truck swerving into this position. [/QUOTE] Huh. [Here ya go](http://www.dcist.com/archives/2007/04/12/areas_road_rage.php): > [@](#): > > When the truck swerved in front of the car and hit its breaks, Luciano and Bender ran into the guardrail and were thrown from the car. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/braking-to-teach-a-tailgater-a-lesson-ends-in-two-deaths-i-pit-everyone-involved/399813/37 "2007-04-12T21:56:25Z")
Even if the pickup driver braked “to teach the other drive[r] a lesson about tailgating” the Sebring driver should have been able to keep control of his car. In other words, was the pickup driver liable for braking suddenly? (He might have been driving recklessly prior to that, but was he at fault for braking? ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/braking-to-teach-a-tailgater-a-lesson-ends-in-two-deaths-i-pit-everyone-involved/399813/38 "2007-04-12T21:58:26Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Mudd] Huh. [Here ya go](http://www.dcist.com/archives/2007/04/12/areas_road_rage.php): [/QUOTE] That comes from a link to the NBC4 news web site, and that story didn’t clearly indicate where that information came from. It is entirely unclear. Did the police say that is what happened based on eyewitness accounts? So until we hear this coming from the police who got it from reliable (and hopefully multiple) eyewitness statements, we can’t be sure of anything. It could be that scenario or it could be that the Sebring was tailgating, or a combination. Either way, that still doesn’t explain to me why those people weren’t wearing seat belts? Darwinism at work? It’s your call… ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/braking-to-teach-a-tailgater-a-lesson-ends-in-two-deaths-i-pit-everyone-involved/399813/39 "2007-04-12T22:03:53Z")
[QUOTE=Dewey Finn] In other words, was the pickup driver liable for braking suddenly? (He might have been driving recklessly prior to that, but was he at fault for braking? [/QUOTE] Yes, absolutely. Braking for no reason with the probable intent to cause an accident is not good mojo. Dude will get his nuts handed to him in a civil suit. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/braking-to-teach-a-tailgater-a-lesson-ends-in-two-deaths-i-pit-everyone-involved/399813/40 "2007-04-12T22:08:29Z")
[QUOTE=Inigo Montoya] Dude will get his nuts handed to him in a civil suit. [/QUOTE] Sure as hell wouldn’t want MY ass on his jury. You want to fuck around on the road and someone winds up dead? Better develop a taste for Ramen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/braking-to-teach-a-tailgater-a-lesson-ends-in-two-deaths-i-pit-everyone-involved/399813.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/braking-to-teach-a-tailgater-a-lesson-ends-in-two-deaths-i-pit-everyone-involved/399813.md?page=3)