# Brand Names (You're now generic) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 12, 2000, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-names-youre-now-generic/10715 "2000-04-12T00:26:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2000, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-names-youre-now-generic/10715/21 "2000-04-13T14:56:00Z")
I just thought of another one: yo-yo. When first marketed, only the Duncan company made yo-yos. He made a mistake, however: he placed a sign outside the town where his factory was located, saying “Yo-Yo Capital Of The World!” Other manufacturers jumped on the chance, saying that if there was a ‘capital’, that must mean that yo-yos were made elsewhere too. In court, it was determined that ‘yo-yo’ was the name of the toy itself and not a trademark, and other manufacturers started cranking out yo-yos. ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2000, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-names-youre-now-generic/10715/22 "2000-04-14T05:30:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by labradorian: > > \*\*Does Kraft have the TM for the use of the word Jello for music, musical performance, musical recordings, etc.? A TM doesn’t give rights to the TM holder for all types of products, only for the types of products the TM is actually registered for use (or anticipated use.) > > Unless of course, it’s a “famous mark”. > \*\* Not being privy to the case itself, I did chat with one Bill Manspeaker, the leader of the group. The band essentially settled out of court, which could mean that they didn’t feel like dealing with it, even though they might have won, or they were going to lose. Kraft said they had to use a word that was in the dictionary, which was narroed down to Green Cello or Green Jelly. They chose the later because, according to Manspeaker, “Cello made us sound like a band or musicians or something.” Self-deprication is a beautiful comedic device, no? My guess is that Jello couldn’t be used anywhere because it is not a word. If someone made Jello cereal, or the new 2000 Ford Jello rolled off the factory, it would still behoove the company to protect it’s trademark, and I think it ould be victorious against all comers. A similar thing is happening with the Squirrel Nut Zippers, as the Squirrel Nut company is suing or threatening to sue the band, no fooling. Maybe it’s over now, as it’s not on the bands homepage anymore, however… * * * Yer pal, Satan [http://www.raleighmusic.com/board/Images/devil.gif](http://www.raleighmusic.com/board/Images/devil.gif) _I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR: Four days, 15 hours, 30 minutes and 18 seconds. 185 cigarettes not smoked, saving $23.23. Life saved: 15 hours, 25 minutes._ ---
**Author:** ![tony1234](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4491bb/32.png) [@tony1234](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tony1234)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2000, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-names-youre-now-generic/10715/23 "2000-04-13T20:11:00Z")
Other examlpes: Roller blades are in-line skates; Wind-surfers are sail boards (or is it the other way around?); Scotch tape is transparent tape. My grandafather used to yell, “Edna, get me some ice from the Fridig-Air!” I doubt the refrigerator was made by that company. Tony ---
**Author:** ![SoMoMom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@SoMoMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoMoMom)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2000, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-names-youre-now-generic/10715/24 "2000-04-13T20:34:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Eve: > \*\*The Velcro people are notorious in the magazine business for suing your ass if you say “Velcro” and it’s not. So you have to say “hook and loop device” or something equally circuitous if it’s not actually Velcro. > > —Miss Copy Editor\*\* You mean there are other hook and loop devices? I’ve never seen any. If it is indeed Velcro that you are talking about, is it ok to use in print or do you have to get their OK? Just curious. I don’t ever want a homepage shut down because I “misused” a TM. On our family homepage I copied the word “Barbie” from one of my daughter’s barbie clothes packages to put a link button to [Barbie.com](http://Barbie.com). I was sure to get the whole TM in there though. I keep waiting to hear from them. ---
**Author:** ![pluto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f08c70/32.png) [@pluto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pluto)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2000, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-names-youre-now-generic/10715/25 "2000-04-13T20:47:00Z")
I used to work for Caterpillar, Inc. They were paranoid of “caterpillar” becoming a generic term for a particular type of earthmoving equipment. We were frequently reminded of this and the aspirin and linoleum examples were trotted out regularly. One problem was that the usual alternative, “bulldozer”, is technically incorrect. A bulldozer is the blade, not the tractor. Caterpillar ™ wanted us to use the euphonious phrase “track-type tractor”. And I don’t know the legal ins and outs of this but I understood they had also protected the right to use their particular shade of yellow and the term “caterpillar yellow”. But that could be a UL. * * * “I’ll tell him but I don’t think he’ll be very keen. He’s already got one, you see!” ---
**Author:** ![SoMoMom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@SoMoMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoMoMom)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2000, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-names-youre-now-generic/10715/26 "2000-04-13T20:56:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by pluto: > \*\*And I don’t know the legal ins and outs of this but I understood they had also protected the right to use their particular shade of yellow and the term “caterpillar yellow”. But that could be a UL. > > \*\* I believe that it is true. My husband used to work in the remanufacturing business. They had to get approval from CAT, Ford, International, Case, all the big guys have a patented color as far as I know. John Deere said, “no”. They wanted a piece of the remanufacturing pie themselves. (This is the way I’m remembering it. Since I wasn’t actually involved, I might not have the details right.) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2000, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-names-youre-now-generic/10715/27 "2000-04-13T21:32:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Satan: > \*\* My guess is that Jello couldn’t be used anywhere because it is not a word. If someone made Jello cereal, or the new 2000 Ford Jello rolled off the factory, it would still behoove the company to protect it’s trademark, and I think it ould be victorious against all comers. > \*\* But “Jello” _is_ a word. It means “a gelatin snack produced by Kraft”. It seems to me that naming a band is different from naming a product; the band isn’t selling themselves; they’re selling their music. P.S. Do you have to keep rewriting your sig, or do have some sort of program generating it? ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2000, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-names-youre-now-generic/10715/28 "2000-04-13T22:11:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by The Ryan: > > \*\*But “Jello” _is_ a word. It means “a gelatin snack produced by Kraft”. \*\* Which means that, as opposed to a word in the dictionary, Kraft gets to choose how it is used. In fact, even if it DID become so common that it became accepted into te dictionary (XEROX has been added to the dictionary), the company would still have some say. It might diminish the scope that they can protect, but if someone is using the word publicly - as in Xerox Gourmet Chocolates or a band called There is no Z in Xerox - as opposed to a novel where a character says, “Can you make me a xerox of this please,” they do have say. Otherwise, it makes it look like the two companies are involved with each other, even if you’d be silly to think so. Hypothetical: The band Green Jello does something to enrage Christian and parents groups a la Marilyn Manson or Ice-T. Suddenly, Kraft - a wholesome company who puts pout fruitty flavored goodnes for kids - is suddenly tied in with this band. I’m sure you can see how this would be bad for them. Even if it was obvious to you, how many urban legends do you see that go on forever? > [@](#): > > **Do you have to keep rewriting your sig, or do have some sort of program generating it?** I have a program… * * * Yer pal, Satan [http://www.raleighmusic.com/board/Images/devil.gif](http://www.raleighmusic.com/board/Images/devil.gif) _I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR: Four days, 20 hours, 11 minutes and 15 seconds. 193 cigarettes not smoked, saving $24.20. Life saved: 16 hours, 5 minutes._ ---
**Author:** ![pluto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f08c70/32.png) [@pluto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pluto)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2000, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-names-youre-now-generic/10715/29 "2000-04-14T00:03:00Z")
In our same Caterpillar indoctrination about the wickedness of careless use of brand names they _said_ that the name is only protected for a particular product line. Their example was that you could open a factory making Cadillac brand meat cleavers, or somesuch, but not Cadillac brand automobiles. Again, I don’t know if they were right or wrong. but that’s what they told us. A relatively well-known case along those lines is Apple Records vs. Apple Computer. IIRC, Apple Computer had to agree to stay out of the music business. Then when CD players and music software became popular they had to renegotiate with Apple Records or face some sort of penalties. Inicidentally, I believe the product made by Kraft is Jell-o, not Jello. ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2000, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-names-youre-now-generic/10715/30 "2000-04-14T01:39:00Z")
This is a stupid question, but: Do people actually say “Xerox this for me\>” or “Here’s a Xerox of that document.”? Because I, and pretty much everyone I know, say copy or photocopy. (I also use “tissue” about as much as I use “Kleenex”.) ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2000, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-names-youre-now-generic/10715/31 "2000-04-14T03:58:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by pluto: > \*\*In our same Caterpillar indoctrination about the wickedness of careless use of brand names they _said_ that the name is only protected for a particular product line. Their example was that you could open a factory making Cadillac brand meat cleavers, or somesuch, but not Cadillac brand automobiles.[/B This would be true for a relatively obscure name but not with such a well known brand name as Cadillac. > [@](#): > > \*\*A relatively well-known case along those lines is Apple Records vs. Apple Computer. IIRC, Apple Computer had to agree to stay out of the music business. Then when CD players and music software became popular they had to renegotiate with Apple Records or face some sort of penalties. > \*\* I thought that Apple Records had sued Apple Computer over the name Apple. I’m afraid I don’t know much about the suit other than that it lasted a long time. Can anyone enlighten us on it? ---
**Author:** ![mega\_the\_roo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3da27b/32.png) [@mega\_the\_roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mega_the_roo)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2000, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-names-youre-now-generic/10715/32 "2000-04-14T05:00:00Z")
> [@](#): > > kool-aid is a generic name? ## i’ve never used it as one, myself, but i’ve certainly heard others do so, more than once. “Organs gross me out. That’s _organs_, not orgasms.” -the wallster ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2000, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-names-youre-now-generic/10715/33 "2000-04-14T14:43:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Kat: > > **This is a stupid question, but: Do people actually say “Xerox this for me?” or “Here’s a Xerox of that document.”?** Yes, but they are usually older folks. Just like older folks will say to put something in the Fridigaire (sp), which was a common brand name for a refrigerator back in the day. Early on, Xerox was synonymous with copying - if they didn’t invent it, they certainly had an early almost-monopoly on the device. * * * Yer pal, Satan [http://www.raleighmusic.com/board/Images/devil.gif](http://www.raleighmusic.com/board/Images/devil.gif) _I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR: Five days, 12 hours, 43 minutes and 13 seconds. 221 cigarettes not smoked, saving $27.65. Life saved: 18 hours, 25 minutes._ ---
**Author:** ![Oblong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c0e974/32.png) [@Oblong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oblong)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2000, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-names-youre-now-generic/10715/34 "2000-04-14T15:34:00Z")
Doesn’t the fact that a Brand Name becomes synonymous with general uses of that product help the company? In other words, why would I bother starting up a tissue company when everybody calls them Kleenex anyway? That is half the battle. If everybody associates a particular product with a particular brand, then that amounts to endless free advertising. Here is another one. Vaseline instead of Petroleum Jelly. In some parts of the country (USA) Coke has become the standard name for any cola. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2000, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-names-youre-now-generic/10715/35 "2000-04-14T16:26:00Z")
> [@](#): > > I thought that Apple Records had sued Apple Computer over the name Apple. I’m afraid I don’t know much about the suit other than that it lasted a long time. Can anyone enlighten us on it? The long and short of it was that, when Apple Computer started up, Apple Corps Ltd. got an agreement with them allowing them to use “Apple” as a trademark as long as they weren’t going to be in the music or film business. Ultimately, of course, Apple computers became well-known for their audio and video performance, and they had to agree to pay additional license fees to Apple Corps. (or perhaps a one-time settlement). From Markxxx: > [@](#): > > These items have passed into generic use and should be treated as such. It is stupid to pretend that they don’t. So you contend that the result of superior manufacturing and marketing which leads to dominant market share should be the loss of one’s trademarks and service marks? ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2000, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-names-youre-now-generic/10715/36 "2000-04-15T05:54:00Z")
Thanks for the info on the Apple fight. > [@](#): > > Originally posted by pldennison: > \*\* So you contend that the result of superior manufacturing and marketing which leads to dominant market share should be the loss of one’s trademarks and service marks? > \*\* [rant] I have no problem with that, but anyone who creates a trademark should make sure there’s a simple, well-known generic term for the product. If they don’t, then they deserve to lose their trademark, as duPont did with cellophane and someone else did with thermos. The one that bugs me the most is velcro, which I have never ever heard anyone use the generic for (hook-and-loop fastener, for those who are interested). Indeed, if anyone did use that term, they would get puzzled looks from everyone else and would have to explain that they meant velcro. Others that bug me are those that coin a descriptive name and then expect everyone to treat it as a trademark. Seeing Eye is one such, as is Windsurfer. I’d almost put Rollerblade in this category, but they mananaged to convince everyone to call them in-line skates. [/rant] ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2000, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-names-youre-now-generic/10715/37 "2000-04-14T18:22:00Z")
dtilque: That’s a fascinating perspective, and I’m not being sarcastic here. So what you’re saying is that a company who comes up with a unique idea (such as velcro) not only has an obligation to come up with a brand nam for their product, but also the generic one? So that when the companies who take their unique idea and run with it, it needs to have a name? I would say that it’s the job of the company/person who comes along SECOND to come up with the generic name for the product, not the first. This does not speak of things such as drug names, which always have a generic name (usually cumbersome, admittedly, but that’s not the pharacutical company’s fault) or products which already have a generic name, such as Jell-o = gelatain, Xerox = copier and the like. * * * Yer pal, Satan [http://www.raleighmusic.com/board/Images/devil.gif](http://www.raleighmusic.com/board/Images/devil.gif) _I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR: Five days, 16 hours, 22 minutes and 16 seconds. 227 cigarettes not smoked, saving $28.41. Life saved: 18 hours, 55 minutes._ ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2000, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-names-youre-now-generic/10715/38 "2000-04-14T20:12:00Z")
> [@](#): > > I’d almost put Rollerblade in this category, but they mananaged to convince everyone to call them in-line skates. After last year’s adventure, I now simply refer to them as “leg-breaking” machines. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2000, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-names-youre-now-generic/10715/39 "2000-04-14T20:38:00Z")
> [@](#): > > After last year’s adventure, I now simply refer to them as “leg-breaking” machines. To me, they’re arm-breaking machines. My pair of whatchimacallits is now in the back of the closet, awaiting the day Hell freezes over. :mad: BTW: Where’ve you been Phil? It’s been ages since I’ve seen one of your posts. * * * Synonym: the word you use in place of a word you can’t spell. ---
**Author:** ![Oblong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c0e974/32.png) [@Oblong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oblong)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2000, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-names-youre-now-generic/10715/40 "2000-04-14T20:51:00Z")
I wore my Bauer in line skates into a ice cream shop that had a “No Roller Blades” sign posted. They told me to leave and I said that I wasn’t wearing Roller Blades but in fact was wearing Bauer in line skates. They didn’t buy it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-names-youre-now-generic/10715.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-names-youre-now-generic/10715.md?page=3)